inquisitive01

No. Paul is warning (keyword) the people of Thessalonica (um, that'd be the Thessalonians) not to be fooled (deluded) by the "wicked one" who might portray himself as God (while sending them "strong delusion")... KJV. Also, I'd say most men viewed women as inferior back in those days... that's just how it was back then (the norm, in other words, which would not necessarily make a man a bad person).

I just don't understand the difficulty with this. This is one of the easier Chapters to read and understand compared to some of the others, though I admit it can be misleading if one doesn't see exactly what it is saying.

Lord Emsworth

Did he fool the author of 2:11?



I was speaking about noun phrases. The noun phrase 'God' in 2:11 = the noun phrase 'Satan' - according to you.



No.

Magdlyn

Well, I'll tell you where they are getting this. From the infallible Bible, itself.

It's a pretty large blanket statement, but there you have it.

Magdlyn

No, they were not. Some of the above are only attributed to him. There is a difference in writing style and theology.

ETA link:

http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/epistles.html


You are conflating John Zebedee and John of Patmos???

ccolinh

Well it looks pretty clear when you write it out like you have :thumbs: , problem is though, that ain't the way its written in the Bible :down:

to align the passage from the Bible with what you have written above you pretty much have to use Lord Emsworth's equation


the difficulty is that you are expected to know when and how the word "GOD" sometimes means "SATAN" and when it only means "GOD"

IMO its misleading (therefore requiring a convoluted apologetic) to you cuz you don't want it to mean what it clearly says - God himself is sending the delusion so that the unrighteous will go to hell where they belong

Chad

inquisitive01

1). Apparently not, since Paul was warning the Thessalonians not to be fooled by unrighteous ways/teachings of the "wicked one" deluding them into believing he was actually God. In other words, God's instruction would be "don't steal," while Satan's instruction (while pretending to be God and deluding the people into thinking he is God) might be something like "It's okay to steal in certain circumstances."

2). If you simply choose to go only by "noun phrases" in this Chapter, I really don't know what else can be said. Once again, in some instances in this Chapter, as discussed earlier, the proper noun "God" is attributed to Satan portraying himself (thus, deluding the people) as "God." Phrases such as "for this cause" (the reasons for which are in the two preceeding Verses) should allow the reader to determine in which instances the noun "God" refers to the actual God, and in which instances it refers to Satan deluding the people into thinking he is the actual God ("with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness").

ccolinh

Did you miss my first post where I showed verse 4 as the only verse clearly showing when Satan was trying to act like God?

Are we expected to believe that 7 verses later "God" suddenly really means "Satan"

thats a stretch, man

inquisitive01

So you're basing you're definite phrase "No, they were not" on divided authenticity based on intangibles (i.e., style, form, content, etc.) from a geocities link???


[/QUOTE]You are conflating John Zebedee and John of Patmos??? [/QUOTE]

Elaborate please? Wasn't Zebedee John's dad's first name (Salome being his mother)? :huh:

gregor

Inquisitive

It's good to see that your knowledge of the Bible is a solid as your knowledge of evolution from the E/C board. Who'd have thunk that?

Spookie Here

Does anyone know the bible verses to explain whether we reach a state of grace through good works versus belief in the power of God?