Chris Weimer

Laughable. Pathetic even. Aut disce aut discede.

mountainman

vinci vince vincent

aa5874

Forgeries in the Bible? Unbelievable!

Which Paul is Paul?

J-D

Do you think it is possible to tell which parts are forgeries, interpolations, and redactions? Do you have any views about what might be left after eliminating all the forgeries, interpolations, and redactions?

J-D

An intriguing speculation, but one for which, so far, you have offered no support.

J-D

There are detailed records of how the Superman stories were created and evolved. You have repeatedly failed to offer a comparably detailed account of how you think the Jesus stories were created and evolved, resorting instead to vague hand-waving.

Furthermore, the Superman stories have changed repeatedly over the history of the comics, and also has varied as Superman has appeared in other media. Given the propensity for retconning in comics, it is likely that this will continue to happen. There is no one aspect of the story you could point to and say with absolute certainty: this is an inherent feature of Superman. It is always possible that the story will be recreated, for the comics or some other medium, with that particular aspect being dropped, and yet still be considered to be part of the story of Superman.

J-D

You seem to be overlooking the fact that there are people posting to this thread who agree in not being true Christians and in not believing what is required to be a true Christian, but who are otherwise in disagreement.

aa5874

There is another observation I would like to make with respect to the non-historicity of Jesus the Christ. It is noticied that entities that exist in some other form, supernatural or superhuman, or in some other realm, the heavens or hell, before they come to earth to live as an earthly being are generally considered fictional or mythological.

Coupled with this outer terrestial abode and inexplicable body form, these mythological entities then enter the earth through some fantastic means, living a life of unheard of acts and then returning to their original place abode.

That is the sum of a myth and Jesus the Christ is a 'carbon' copy of a myth.

The pre-existing myth, Jesus the Christ, can be found in John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The myth, Jesus the Christ, comes to earth in fantasy, in John1:14, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth.

The myth, Jesus the Christ, carries out supernatural fictitious acts witnessed by real people, in John 11:43-44, "And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus come forth. And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes; and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go".

The myth, Jesus the Christ, speaks of his return to his former place of abode, the heavens, in John 20:17, "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; unto my God and your god.

The mythical Jesus the Christ of John.

mountainman

Arius enters the chronology of "biblical history" circa 317 CE.
He enters because of his words not his doctrine.
Constantine in fact, is reported to have called Nicaea
"over the words of Arius".

The "Arian controversy" evolved supposedly out of "the words
of Arius" and then evolved into the "Arian Heresy" which is in
no uncertain terms augered by Constantine's edict above.

But what were these words of Arius?
We note the exclusion clause on the Nicean creed:

But those who say that
there was a time when he was not, and
before he was born he was not, and that
he was made out of nothing existing or who say that
God’s Son is from another subsistence or substance
or is subject to alteration or change,
the catholic and apostolic church anathematizes.

The subject of this thread concerns "the historicity of JC"
and an argument can be made that the words of Arius
directly relate to the historicity of the new god.

* there was a time when he was not (before Constantine)
* before he was born he was not (before Constantine)
* he was made out of nothing existing (he was fabricated, he is a fiction)
* he is from another subsistence or substance (fiction)
* he subject to alteration or change (literary fiction)

These are all comments by the words of Arius against the
historicity of Jesus the christ, the new and strange god
of the supreme imperial mafia thug, christian theologican
and proselyetiser, malevolent despot and murderer,
described by contemporary historians as "a brigand, and
a ward irresponsible for his own actions."

It developed from the words of Arius circa 317 CE in Alexandria
in the eastern empire to which bullneck looked with boundless
ambition for at least 5 years, and no earlier.

So Eusebius tells us, but Arianism was not one of them.
Arianism evolved from the words of Arius, c.317 CE.

Eusebius attempts to place the controversy earlier of course.
He supports and invents the entire prenicene pseudo-chronology.
His "Ecclesiastical History" is all about the lead in to Nicaea.
It is a fabrication, and a fiction of men composed by wickedness.

I am of the opinion that it is distinctly possible that in fact
there may have been no christians on the planet before
Constantine, and that Arius was vehemently objecting to
the historicity of Jesus the Christ in realtime, as the fabrication
of the Galilaeans was being created 312-324 CE. This propaganda
was the propaganda of Constantine, and was probably being sent
into the easterm empire and Alexandria in advance of his military
conquest, which seems to be the modus operandi of malevolent
dictators.

You will find no doctrine of Arius before 317 CE.
IMO the doctrine of Arius may be interpretted as:
"Constantine invented/fabricated a new god".

Of course, we all know what happened to Arius at the time
Constantine became supreme and called his "Supremacy Party"
to discuss "the words of Arius".

aa5874

Read Against Heresies by Irenaeus and you would see the many versions of Jesus the Christ, there is even a Christ that was conceived by father, son and a woman called the Holy Spirit.

I try not to speculate about mythical entities, I generally only point out inconsistencies and fictitious elements in the Bible.

The stories of Jesus have changed, have you seen his genealogy lately? He has a new grandfather according to Luke.