Ted Hoffman

That is his speciality these days. And of course, ceaselessly and indiscriminately accusing people of making arguments that have "poor form." I have never seen anyone overuse and torture an expression so much.
Chris, at what point did you decide that addressing arguments in a civil, objective tone is a bad idea? The colourful rhetoric and ad hominems actually degrade you. They are not necessary and they do nothing to add more punch to your arguments - you end up coming accross as mean-spirited, angry and immature. You can do better than this.

Chili

Why don't we just call it another protestant perversion of myth and be done with it. The villagers were right and here is what the woman they are looking for has to say about it.

The River-Merchant's Wife: A Letter

While my hair was still cut straight across my forehead
I played about the front gate, pulling flowers.
You came by on bamboo stilts, playing horse,
You walked about my seat, playing with blue plums.
And we went on living in the village of Chokan:
Two small people, without dislike or suspicion.

At fourteen I married My Lord you.
I never laughed, being bashful.
Lowering my head, I looked at the wall.
Called to, a thousand times, I never looked back.

At fifteen I stopped scowling,
I desired my dust to be mingled with yours
Forever and forever and forever.
Why should I climb the lookout?

At sixteen you departed,
You went into far Ku-to-en, by the river of swirling eddies,
And you have been gone five months.
The monkeys make sorrowful noise overhead.

You dragged your feet when you went out.
By the gate now, the moss is grown, the different mosses,
Too deep to clear them away!
The leaves fall early this autumn, in wind.
The paired butterflies are already yellow with August
Over the grass in the West garden;
They hurt me. I grow older.
If you are coming down through the narrows of the river Kiang,
Please let me know beforehand,
And I will come out to meet you
As far as Cho-fo-Sa.

-- Ezra Pound

Chris Weimer

It's hard to receive it, yet so easy to dish it out, eh Jacob? IIDB is a place where I call it as I see it. It's obvious that Turton was clueless, googled something quick to support his position, and ran with it. Not my problem. I have provided a fair amount of solid information - if the only thing you can get me on is what I say about Michael Turton, then all the worse for you.

Amaleq13

Chris,

When I first read the Smithsonian exerpts, it seemed to me that the Chief was inserting his people's current beliefs into his description of the initial vision rather than claiming that the figure in the vision identified himself by name.

IOW:
"Chief Isaac and other local leaders say that [a figure they eventually came to understand was] John Frum first appeared one night in the late 1930s, after a group of elders had downed many shells of kava as a prelude to receiving messages from the spirit world. “He was a white man who spoke our language, but he didn’t tell us then he was an American [or that his name was John Frum],” says Chief Kahuwya, leader of Yakel village. [The figure] told them he had come to rescue them from the missionaries and colonial officials. “[The figure] told us that all Tanna’s people should stop following the white man’s ways,” Chief Kahuwya says. “He said we should throw away their money and clothes, take our children from their schools, stop going to church and go back to living as kastom people. We should drink kava, worship the magic stones and perform our ritual dances.”

Solo

....evidently, the subject matter here is "personal
identity crisis".

Jiri

Splarnst

I think so, too. I was wondering, "Prince Charles? WTF?"

Toto

My mistake. But what difference does it make? One British royal would do as well for these cultists.

Chris Weimer

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. At first I took it as you were reading correctly and understanding as I was. Now I'm not sure. The name John Frum itself is as old as the cult's foundation in the 40s.

Chris Weimer

Reading Toto's words, I also made the switch, but later one when he didn't name the prince, I resorted back to Prince Philip. There's a term for that in synoptic studies.

HoverCraftWheel

That may be true, but have a little sympathy for us Brits. Having people think Prince Philip is divine is weird enough, having people think it of "I want to be reincarnated as Camilla's tampon" Charles would be utterly mind-boggling