Juliana

Yup, and there is also no rule against reading a great book (big part, the rest from January 06 on) for free here and then discussing it here on this great free board!

John Deere

Amaleq13:

Thank you for clarifying. I did not start this thread but was told about it and jumped in. I do want to promote the book, of course, but also feel the thesis in Caesar's Messiah is interesting discussion material and enjoy analyizing it with people who have read it.

Joe

Amaleq13

FYI: Part of "defending the position" involves answering questions about the position.

Juliana

Whoever that Atwill guy is, one thing is certain: He does have chutzpah!

John Deere

Juliana:

I am not sure about the chutzpah, but I am confident that the theory of Christian origins presented in Caesar's Messiah has the greatest explanatory power and will therefore eventually be generally accepted. Bear in mind I have already thrashed my "botched fabulations" out with dozens of scholars - several of whom courageously gave me blurbs for the book - and pretty much know the range of criticism possible against the thesis. Which is:

1) The Flavians invented Christianity as a replacement for the militaristic messianic religion in Judea that waged war against them.
2) They created Jesus's ministry as a satire of Titus's military campaign - it was created to mock the Jews' belief in prophecy.



Joe

RTS

Just so the above quote by Amaleq13 is not misconstrued... Joe Atwill did not start this thread. If I recall correctly, I posted in the thread "Where are the Records?" approximately a year and a half ago, and then that post was used to create this thread by a moderator. I am not Joe Atwill. The moderators can check IP addresses to confirm this.

John Deere,

Good to see you made it here, Mr. Atwill. I found your book to be very intriguing, well presented, and one of the most plausible accounts of early Christianity I've read to date. Accolades!

John Deere

RTS:

Thanks for the kind words and it is a pleasure to encounter someone who has actually read the book.

Joe

spin

You can get us out... with a little transparency. I spent much of the previous thread trying to get substance out of you regarding pHab.

Again ducking and weaving.

Where exactly is your data? I gave you the exact location and the context of the data from the Doudna article. (I provided the two ranges for pHab, a brief spike at 160-149 BCE and a main range of 111 BCE - 2 CE) You have not replied with the same courtesy. I have asked you many times for the exact source. Let me remind you of the data you previously supplied: 1QpHab Recal: 88-2 BCE, 1986: 104-43 BCE -- from here, which appears to be some form of 1 sigma data. Then recently, you posted "The two sigma range for Habbakuk based upon the 1998 recalibration was between (roughly) 180 BCE and 80 CE." This data is certainly not a recalibration of the raw data Doudna used for the dating I quoted. I can only assume three possibilities: 1) Doudna's data is wrong, 2) you've misread your source, or 3) you've doctored the data.

Repeatedly I have asked for your exact source for your pHab C14 data. You obfuscated with a post of references, to which I responded that only one of the references could be relevant, that which post-dates the Doudna article, that of Stuiver et al. I then asked a few times how Stuiver impacted on the pHab data and you refused to respond. Finally I responded: "You can't answer simple questions such as how Stuiver's 1998 article impacts on the dating of 1QpHab."

Have you just fabricated your base C14 data for pHab??

To the readers of this thread: if you can follow all this, am I asking anything strange? Am I missing something or is John Deere refusing to respond to something he needs to respond to?


spin

rlogan

Sometimes I can be such a dummy. But I'm not sure where the source of your recalibration is for pHab, Joe.

Toto cited an article of yours that my University library does not subscribe to.

If that is the article, can you provide me a copy as a professional courtesy? I have a doctorate in econometrics. Taught statistics for a couple of decades. So this sort of thing would be of interest to me.

If so, just PM me and I'll give you my business email.

Thank you.

John Deere

Spin:

We are in a loop.

See:http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...33#post2516233

Joe