DLH

I don't really understand why you would say that one says before and the other after. Could you explain, please?

thentian

I can´t speak for others, but for my own part I´ll say that I seldom find these dispellings satisfactory. At most I´ll agree that; "Okay, it is not impossible that it happened that way, or yes, that is what the writer could have meant." For example; the way you resolve Judas´ death is both contrived and implausible, in my opinion. I think the much more plausible explanation is that the stories are different because they were written by two different persons who had heard different oral versions of it. No godly supervision involved.

Furthermore, I think the differences between the gospels are exactly what one could expect from four different persons writing at different times and places what they mostly knew from oral sources. (Matthew and Luke probably having access to parts of Mark.) I also think think these persons did their best to relate the events as accurately as they could.

I´m not sure what you mean when you say the writers were "divinely inspired", but I notice that people who claim the bible to be the inerrant, divinely inspired Word of God often end up portraying the evangelists as sloppy writers in the beginning of senility. Would Matthew (or Luke) really leave out details like those you claim happened with Judas´death if he knew about them? Or the story of Peter´s excursion to Gethsemane (another discussion) if he knew about that? The list goes on and on. I almost feel offended on his behalf when people make such claims.

thentian

Sorry, what I wrote above is all the answer you´re going to get. You always know what the bible really means, so you should have no problem figuring out what my real answer is from the above.

Roland

In Mark, Jesus returns from his temptation in the wilderness to gather his disciples and start his ministry. It says in Mark 1:14 that Jesus begins his ministry AFTER John the Baptist has been put in prison.

However, John 3:24 says specifically that John has not yet been arrested long after Jesus and his disciples have been parading around the countryside performing miraculous deeds.

Cege

The verse doesn't say that Judas attempted to hang himself, it says he hanged himself. The verse doesn't say there was a limb or that the unmentioned limb broke. The verses don't say that Judas was disemboweled as a result from a fall by hanging from a limb that broke. You have added what you wish the verses say but don't say.

If a man hangs himself and dies, and later his decomposed body decapitates because of decomposition and gravity, the man still died by hanging.

If a man hangs himself but in the process decapitates himself, he may have died by decapitation but not by hanging.

It's not difficult unless you try and add what isn't there.

The priests couldn't reject the money and also use it to buy a field. They accepted the money back but didn't return it to their treasury because it was blood money; instead they purchased a field for potters burial, and called it Field of Blood because it was purchased with "blood money". At least, according to gMatthew but not according to Acts.

DLH

This is, to me, an apparently sincere remark coming from someone who is in a position that generally disagrees with my own. That intrigues me. It is a most welcome and refreshing surprise. But tell me, why do you think it was an excellent post? I would like to know.

thentian

I meant that sincerely, yes.

You made your argument clearly and succinctly, explaining the greek and showing examples of how it was used elsewhere, as well as showing that many translators agree with your position. It is hardly possible to do a better job unless one makes a whole dissertation out of it, IMO.

Did Jesus ever claim to be divine in your opinion?

DLH

First of all, I really do appreciate your uh ... appreciation of my post. I will often express an appreciation of a skeptic's perspective if it is done well, though I disagree with it.

To answer your question, yes. Jesus most certainly did claim to be divine. Which means almost nothing. The judges were dieties, Moses was appointed to be a god by Jehovah God to Pharaoh and Aaron. I think that the skeptic is just a little bit more informed than the Xian. They (skeptics) have the upper hand because they don't believe in the religion of it all but on the other hand the skeptic is subject in some way to the lack of education of the believer.

So the skeptic has the unfortunate position of having to go by what the uninformed Xian (I loath them as, or more than do you) does. It is really sad. I would love to see the skeptics rise above the misinformation of the Xian. That would produce something a great deal more important than fighting ignorance with ignorance.

You have to sort of ... close your mind to the shit that is being spoonfed you in order to see that there are great possibilities outside of such an easy discourse. You have to run up and down the maze like Douglas Adam's Mice and Dolphins. You have to surprise!

DLH

I apologize. I posted a response to the thread while you posted your admonition. I do, however, think that it was pertinent to the topic in that most people need a handle on the specific beliefs of another in order to more carefully appreciate where those belifs come from. I was only trying to better equip them in fairness as such.

aa5874

You have to be careful also in assuming you can define God.

My point is basically that the entire Bible is a contradiction. Nothing with respect to the God of the Jews and Jesus his Son can be proven to be true, but there is a lot that must be false.

What language do the Gods of the Jews talk? Sounds like Greek to me.