Harry Bosch

Hmm, you make a good point. Its a hard concept for me to accept. It might surprise you to know that I am actually a very liberal Christian! I go to a Methodist church on sundays (unless the Oregon Ducks, or Seattle Seahawks or Seattle Mariners are playing). And it does not bother my faith one bit that the ancient writers of the bible did not understand how old the universe is, where man decended from, how old the earth is and etc. Also, my faith is not so weak that it is threatened by knowing the truth.

Ellis14

That is interesting and refreshing to know.

But personally, I can't reconcile such a position to myself. I've never been able to accept the bible other than as a fundamentalist. When I rejected that, I rejected the bible and theism altogether.

Is your position not weaker than a fundie's? I ask because I want to understand.

Doctor X

Stinger:

You grow in wisdom. . . .

That applies probably to most religions. To bring this towards the topic, the religions were "locative"--this land-this deity. Methinks the growth of deities, particularly with the younger deities, came as a population expanded. The main city/settleman has "Big Daddy"--Enlil, El--as their deity and the lesser settlements have the "Son"--"Marduk, Baal" . . . perhaps the "Big Daddy" becomes more "cosmic" as the city worshipping the lesser deity becomes more prominent?

This may explain YHWH who--if you believe some scholars--was a verb attached to divine titles "El who Makes the Heavenly Hosts" or something like that.

ANYWAYS, even the OT has this view. "Of course there is no tradition of monotheism in the Old Testament!" to quote a mentor. I am reminded of the story of Mesha [2 Kings 3:26-27--Ed.] where the king of Moab sacrifices his son on the wall of his city as a burnt offering. As a result, his god squishes the Israelites. I have read that some scholars think the dietary restrictions are not because "it makes sense in a desert" but as a way to make a group distinct from their neighbors.

Sooooo . . . if the Hebrews picked up the Flood Myths from Babylon or Assyria if earlier . . . they made the myths their own--the person saved is "one of us."

--J.D.

Ellis14

Excellent post.

Harry Bosch

Yes, my position is very weak. I started off in life as a fundamentalist also. Like many, my beliefs are constantly evolving. However, you would be surprised. The conservatives have taken over Christianity in America and made it fundamentalist and exclusionary. I lived in Germany for four years. Almost everyone that I knew went to church weekly. And they would laugh at the very thought of creation being taught in the schools for example. I adhere to what Jesus taught: love your neighbor, treat others, as you would want to be treated and etc.

Doctor X

Ellis10:

You too grow in wisdom. . . . [Sign. . . .--Ed.]

--J.D.

Harry Bosch

Very good points. Its interesting that people like to claim that the Jewish religion has always been monothesist. It clearly isn't. Its clear that early Christian "editors" went through the OT and tried to amend the sections dealing with multiple gods. But they didn't catch all the references!

Its also interesting that some of the eastern religions are not ethnocentric! For example, a person can be a buddaist and a Shinto. The early Japanses did not have problems with Christian missionaries converting the people in the beginning. However, once they realized that Christianty excluded out any other religion and lifestyle, they tried to put an end to it in their country!

Kosh

Hey, I just flew in from Germany on Saturday (and boy are my arms tired). Just glad to see the sun is still there....

the problem with that approach, is that once you've admitted that parts of the Bible are not true, where do you stop? Why not say that the bits about Jesus are also not true, and maybe meant to be allegorical? They are just as ridiculous as the flood myth. This is why many of us ex-fundies have abandoned it altogether....

spin

Such confirmation would defeat the purpose of the story, wouldn't it? All religions require its adherents to hold a position beyond mundane evidence. You need enlightenment, not evidence, for evidence can be misunderstood or lost.

What's the sound of one hand clapping? -- Enlightenment, don't know what it is.

Incidentally, how many thetans can dance around on the head of a pin?


spin

Amaleq13

Clearly a prophecy of the coming of Terry Pratchett!