spin

Someone else fails to see that the name can also be Yahu, as in Isayahu (Isaiah), Eliyahu (Elijah) and very many others, so the division Yah-weh isn't kosher despite such things as halleluyah (which only appears in the late book of Psalms). The WAW is an integral part of the deity name.


spin

Chris Weimer

Are you referring to me? I only meant that I fail to see how what Cliverdurdle said is of any relevance to the conversation, how any assertions he made automatically equate Yahweh with Yinyang or that Abraham was a deity. Please, I hope you aren't talking about me.

But you're right, the name isn't exactly only Yahweh, but then one would imagine where where the extra WH came from? Evoh? Is that right? Sorry spin, I'm still learning Hebrew, bear with me.

spin

I'd say if you read it in context you could answer yourself, but...

You said, "I fail to see..." and I responded, "Someone else fails to see..." I would hope that "someone else" doesn't equate to what came before it, ie... no.

Naaa.

Naughty. I said that the name, or the theophoric element, is often Yahu, YHW, ie the WAW is often part of the abbreviated name, so it can't be separated as the "etymologicians" are trying to do.

Ya wot??

We're all learning Hebrew.


spin

Chris Weimer

I am relieved. I didn't think so, but one can never assume to much, and you do often have off the wall comments. Ok, so Yahu is abbreviated then?

spin

Not to me. Ironic, gnomic, cryptic, derivative, but never off the wall.

This is what I'm not sure about. I can put a case together that the original theophoric was YHW, ie that it was a trigrammaton. It's the form found in Elephantine. And if we assume that the -H of )$RTH (Asherah, the T is the feminine ending not used in the non-suffixed form where T > H, add suffix and we have a Tbefore the suffix) is a suffix of some sort (not necessarily possessive -- we don't know that much about early Hebrew), then it could be on YHWH as well. This also suggests that we have YHW-H and the root is YHW. But there's not quite enough to convince me. It is possible though.


spin

Clivedurdle

I think we are misunderstanding what we are saying. Just as Shamanism is accepted as a key part of Taoism - I know the above is not an academic reference, it is just the first one on google - an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi has come along and said hello, Judaism has a lot in common with other shamanistic traditions - North American Indians, and makes a link to Taoism.

Fascinating how the first reference I find mentions Jewish Qabala!

There seems to be a huge amount of resistance to something that to me is self evident - that Shamanistic traditions are self evident in the Bible, and Yahweh may be an interesting example!

Clivedurdle

The connection is Shamanism!

Shamanism

Modern xianity still has very strong shamanistic tendencies, especially in the pentecostal and healing bits.

If we want to understand biblical history, we have to seriously acknowledge anthropological thinking - OK Judaism is technically post shamanic, but the thinking that led to someone inventing yahweh was shamanic! It might be people inventing the same thing in different parts of the world, but it might be because ideas were shared...

Sheshbazzar

I would hazard to guess that I am "someone else", and if I am not that "someone" of whom you were speaking, I am still "someone" who does indeed "see that the Name can also be Yahu", (also "Yaho")
And accepts as fellow believers and brethren, and joins in prayer and in praise with all of the brethren that employ this spelling and pronunciation of the Name; (and as many other spellings and pronunciations of The Name as men of honest intent, and with clear conscience may hold dear)
The WAW is an integral part of the deity Name,... in as many locations in The Scriptures as it appears in; In Scriptures it does not appear in, it is not to be written, added, or read in.

spin

Well, only in the halleluyah comment. But no, I was referring to those who propose or support the absurd separation of YHWH as YH and WH and relating these parts to Yin and Yang.

Agreed on a literary level. The WAW is an integral part of the name.


spin

Clivedurdle

But ying and yang are not separate either - look at the classic symbol, it is a circle where the two sides merge into each other!

This is a psychological, how we think argument, not a literary discussion.

It is how we treat opposites - male, female, good evil, are they really opposite or is there a continuum?

These are very ancient ideas - think about it - why are similar concepts found in North American peoples and in Russia? Were they invented separately or are they ways of thinking that are at least 50.000 years old?