Rasputin

Hello,

Thank you for approving my registration to this forum.

I decided to register after reading through some of the archives of past discussions and appreciating the level of discussion taking place here.

I am an authorized representative of the Church of Satan, an organization to which I have belonged since 1992. I was appointed to the Priesthood of the Church of Satan by its founder Anton Szandor LaVey in 1996.

My intentions here are not to proselytize or solicit affiliation (we don’t do that), but to provide information and clear up any misconceptions or misinformation that may arise.

The following links provide further material for discussion:

• This is the official Church of Satan website: http://www.churchofsatan.com/
• History of the Church of Satan: http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/HistoryMain.html
• Theory & Practice: http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Theory.html
• Interviews: http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Interview.html

I am cautious about presenting personal information on the internet, but will be glad to verify my identity with the administrators of the forum should they request it.

R.

Chris Weimer

:wave: Welcome to the Boards! There were a couple of Satanists here on the boards, I'm pretty sure most know the position by now.

badger3k

I don't have any questions or comments at the present time, except welcome aboard.

Crucifiction

I happen to be one of them.

Unfortunately, I'm not a registered member of the Church of Satan because I'm still a minor and, I believe, the COS charges a membership fee that I could never afford; but I do follow the basic prinicples as layed down by Reverend LaVay. However, I also include several ideologies of my own; as certain laws followed by the COS seem slightly wasteful and pointless.

I do not practice rituals like many Satanists do, as I find them to be remnants of superstition left over by the Christians that need to be erased.

I'm far more interested in the psychological aspects of Satanism. The whole Satanic mystique, involving magick and spells and such, is pointless, IMO, and best left to Luciferians. However, the basic psychological aspects behind the "spells" and the "magick" are quite valid.

Rasputin, it's a pleasure to meet a fellow Satanist. They seem to be rare about these parts.

Rasputin

Thank you for the courteous welcome.

Crucifiction, Thank you for the welcome and for taking the time to respond. I have a few questions regarding your comments (numbered accordingly):

1. For example?

2. That is an odd observation. Could you elaborate what exactly about Satanic Ritual you would perceive as being “left over by the Christians�??

3. The “pointless�? comment seems to contradict your following observations – and I’m not sure what you mean by “Luciferians.�?

4. Could you clarify your distinction between the “pointless mystique�? and “valid psychological aspects�? of Satanic magic?

HS!
R.

Crucifiction

1. I don't think I clarified enough on my original post. It's not so much that they are wasteful, in that they are too broad a generalization. For example, most other Satanists I know refuse to help those who are unemployed; even those who are crippled. I am as much a humanitarian as I am a Satanist, and I don't feel this is necessarily the right way to go about things. While I have no desire whatsoever to support an ingrate who refuses to hold a steady job and wants to live off of the government, I also feel that it is prudent that we do as much as possible to support those who can't work. Also, the first of the Eleven Satanic Rules states that we shouldn't give our opinions unless asked for them. I don't see this as practical; because most people DON'T ask for our opinions. If we refuse to give our opinions, we will likely go unheard.

2. Again, I probably didn't make myself clear, and I apologize. I should have said left over by theists, instead of simply Christians.

Most of the rituals involving candles, altars, etc. do stem from religion. I feel that it is best that we disassociate ourselves from religion, because Satanism really is simply athiesm that includes certain moral doctrines. The rituals really aren'y needed, and they give the impression that we worship Satan, which is false. Equally, they seem to be a waste of time, but I'll get to that with my next point.

3. The rituals were primarily created in order to focus the psyche on the goal one wishes to achieve. However, I do not find that these pseudo-mystical rituals are necessary for that. The main goal of Satanism is to achieve that which one desires; and to do that, one needs focus. That's the primary motivation for the rituals most Satanists observe, but I think that the rituals can do the opposite and distract from the goal. When one focuses so much attention of the ritual and not what they hope to achieve, it kind of defeats the purpose. {A Luciferian is an actual devil worshipper. They have many rituals simillar to those found in Satanism, however, they actually invoke a real Satanic entity. However, unlike Setians who simply view Satan as an incarnation of the Egyptian God Set, they invoke the actual biblical Lucifer.}

4. As I said before, the main idea behind LaVeyan-style Satanism is to achieve the goals one has in life. Most of the rituals, therefore, are designed to help one focus on achieving that goal. However, many Satanists are so wrapped up in the ritualization that they cease to focus on the goal, and instead focus on the ritual. I believe whole-heartedly on the idea that one must focus on their goal, desire it, and go after it with all their strength in order to achieve it; but I find that the ritual and symbolism can actually distract from that. Also, it makes us appear to be Luciferians, and gives the Christians ammunition with which to attack us.

In all honesty, LaVey wanted attention from the Christians. Hence, the name "Satanism" itself was designed to invoke certain feelings within them; and that gave LaVey the attention he wanted.

LaVeyan Satanism is a mix of Ayn Rand pseudo-mysticism and nihilism as proposed by Frederick Nietzsche. It is actually psychological in nature; the rituals are there to simply lend support to the psychological aspects, as well as piss Christians off. However, the Christians became pissed off ages ago, and the ritualism of Satanism, in my opinion, has become a burden to Satanism; oftentimes distracting from the psychological aspects of Satanism. Hence, I do not feel the need to follow the rituals.

EDIT: I suppose I should give a summary of my position, so I'll go ahead and sum it up:

The mysticism aspect is merely used to support the psychological aspect of Satanism, which is the fulfillment of life as one wishes. However, the mysticism has pretty much taken over Satanism, and many people no longer understand that it is their mind, instead of the rituals, which aids them in doing so. The rituals and mumbo-jumbo and all that are simply buffers that allow the psyche to alter their perception of reality.

Satanism was intended to be an escape from religion, an athiestic philosophy; but the ritualization and addition of mystical practices seems to cause it to simply become another pseudo-mystical "occult" practice.

shivalinga

Hey Count Dracula...take it down a notch...The following is from the link that goes to the Satanic Church Theory and Practice entitled:
The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
With my commentary in brackets.

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

[What if a person is about to punch you in the face, do you need to be asked to give your opinion to him ?]

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

[What if you just got ripped off when getting your car fixed at the bodyshop ?]

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

[What if your friends get drunk and decide to it's time to kick your ass ?]

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

[What if you get annoyed because the person ate your tainted food and vomits in your face ?]

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

[What if I just want oral sex ?, ya know, no mating ?]

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

[Robin Hood may disagree]

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

[One man's magic is another man's hocus pocus]

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

[Even if it hurts...alot ?]

9. Do not harm little children.

[What if they have a gun and are going to shoot your child for his sneakers ?]

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

[Is this vegetarianism with a caveat for eskimos or desert dwellers, or is it an excuse to eat Big Mac's ?]

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

[What if it's your friends playing a practical joke, which if you didn't destroy them you would have ended up getting laid at the bachelor party or winning some huge cash prize because it's all part of a hidden camera T.V show trying to see how much annoyance you can handle ?]

Rasputin

Crucifiction,
Thank you once again for taking the time to articulate your thoughts.

There is nothing about Satanism that dictates anyone should give or refuse help to whomever they see fit or not. The key concept is “responsibility to the responsible.�? If you help someone, it is because they deserve it for some reason, or that it makes you feel better. This is not in conflict with the principles of Satanism, unless the individual is particularly undeserving – as you point out yourself.

As to the giving of unsolicited advice or opinions, observe how frequently solicited advice is ignored. There are few things more obnoxious than someone who gives unsolicited advice.


The use of candles, altars, etc. far predates Christianity, which leads me to another point I’ll go into in response to your next statement.


Dr. LaVey included ritual magic in Satanism for very specific reasons:

�?Man needs ritual and dogma, but no law states that an externalized god is necessary in order to engage in ritual and ceremony performed in a god's name! Could it be that when he closes the gap between himself and his "God" he sees the demon of pride creeping forth - that very embodiment of Lucifer appearing in his midst? He no longer can view himself in two parts, the carnal and the spiritual, but sees them merge as one, and then to his abysmal horror, discovers that they are only the carnal - AND ALWAYS WERE! Then he either hates himself to death, day by day - or rejoices that he is what he is!

If he hates himself, he searches out new and more complex spiritual paths of "enlightenment" in hopes that he may split himself up again in his quest for stronger and more externalized "gods" to scourge his poor miserable shell. If he accepts himself, but recognizes that ritual and ceremony are the important devices that his invented religions have utilized to sustain his faith in a lie, then it is the SAME FORM OF RITUAL that will sustain his faith in the truth – the primitive pageantry that will give his awareness of his own majestic being added substance.
…

Man needs ceremony and ritual, fantasy and enchantment. Psychiatry, despite all the good it has done, has robbed man of wonder and fantasy which religion, in the past, has provided. Satanism, realizing the current needs of man, fills the large grey void between religion and psychiatry. The Satanic philosophy combines the fundamentals of psychology and good, honest emotionalizing, or dogma. It provides man with his much needed fantasy. There is nothing wrong with dogma, providing it is not based on ideas and actions which go completely against human nature.�?


Anyone who loses track of their goals by getting wrapped up in performing rituals is not deserving of the term Satanist. This is part of the problem. There is no controlling who self-applies the label “Satanist�? – anyone can go into a bookstore, buy a copy of THE SATANIC BIBLE and start spouting off nonsense. In my experience, some of the worst disservice to Satanism is committed by incompetent people trying to pass themselves off as Satanists.


Satanism is what it is for very specific reasons. It is hardly becoming to modify the program because it might give Christians “ammunition.�?


Dr. LaVey was explicit about his motives in using the term Satanism (From the forward The Devil's Notebook): "I have termed my thought 'Satanism' because it is most stimulating under that name. Self-discipline and motivation are effected more easily under stimulating conditions. Satanism means 'the opposition' and epitomizes all symbols of nonconformity. Satanism calls forth the strong ability to turn a liability into an advantage, to turn alienation into exclusivity. In other words, the reason it's called Satanism is because it's fun, it's accurate, and it's productive."

Irritating Christians is just a pleasant collateral advantage.


I’m not sure what you mean by “Ayn Rand pseudo-mysticism�? – Rand was quite opposed to mysticism, as is Satanism.

There are only one or two small passages in one of Dr. LaVey’s books that is based on a speech appearing in Rand’s ATLAS SHRUGGED, that is a small portion of one book Dr. LaVey wrote – he wrote five altogether. It is a common misconception that Dr. LaVey owed some massive debt to Ayn Rand – The Church of Satan is no more eager to identify with Objectivism than Objectivists are to identify with Satanism. There are some overlaps – particularly the doctrine of rational self-interest. But Rand had no place in her philosophy for the irrational – which is an innate aspect of human nature that must be acknowledged and recognized in order to be controlled that it not run rampant and destructively.

Satanic ritual is the venue through which we vent the irrational impulses in a controlled way – to work out obsessions through directed focus, objectively entering subjective states in the “intellectual decompression chamber�? that is ritual.


As I pointed out above, there is no place for mysticism in Satanism. Satanism is diametrically opposed to mysticism, and does not acknowledge “supernatural�? powers etc. But ritual magic is an integral part of Satanism.

Even when accepting the potential of ritual magic, Dr. LaVey does not resort to far-fetched mystical theories or other hypotheses – at most he suggests that in ritual we exert adrenal energy that somehow galvanizes the impression of the goal in such a way that it seems to impact the course of events. Many Satanists are convinced by a track record of success that outweighs the probability of “coincidence�? – but still retain a healthy skepticism.

Ritual magic is a healthy catharsis for obsession in working toward a goal once all actual actions that can be taken toward the goal have been taken.

Remember 50% of THE SATANIC BIBLE is devoted to the theory and practice of Satanic magic. To exclude the ritual aspects of Satanism is to only embrace part of the Religion.

Satanism IS a religion and was intentionally founded as such.

Satanism is more than just “atheism in black.�?

Keep in mind that I am not expressing just another opinion on the matter – but that I was authorized by Dr. LaVey himself to represent and explain his philosophy.

Rasputin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Reductio ad absurdum ...is a type of logical argument where we assume a claim for the sake of argument, arrive at an absurd result, and then conclude the original assumption must have been wrong...

Better luck next time.

Crucifiction

A religion, by necessity, invokes a "higher power", be it a god, spirit, devil, what have you. LaVeyan Satanism does NOT invoke any of these entities, so it is therefore not a religion.

I agree with that; to an extent. Not everybody needs it, as many athiests on this board will be quick to point out, but quite a few do. However, the rituals are meant to simply stimulate the mind to produce desired effects. When one allows the rituals to take presidence over the desired goal, then it is subversive to the very core belief structure of Satanism.

As I said, I do NOT agree with Dr. LaVey on everything. I follow and accept quite a number of his ideas, however, I also add aspects of humanism, skepticism, athiesm, and a number of other ideologies into my belief structure as well. I would label myself primarily as a Satanist, but I am not strictly one.

One area where I would disagree with Dr. LaVey is the idea that fantasy is desirable. I feel that fantasy can blind someone, regardless if it goes against human nature.

I agree that man is an animal, that we have base tendencies that it is useless to fight against, and that indulgence is a desirable trait. HOWEVER, I also feel that it is necessary humans break away from ritual, regardless of the intent; fantasy is just that, fantasy. It needs to be left behind, because it serves no purpose.

The idea behind the rituals is purely psychiatric in nature.

You also have to realize that LaVey made statements that are, honestly, absurd. I'll get into that tomorrow as I'm pretty tired.

Anyway, it was good talking to you. I hope we can talk again very soon.

Hail Satan,

Crucifiction