Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Lógos Sokratikós · 07-31-2008, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Perhaps the real question we need to ask is whether George W. Bush is black...

Believe it or not, that is a very important point for this discussion:

http://www.free-press-release.com/ne...110784525.html

Quote:

Remember how liberals were saying Bill Clinton was the first black president after a 1998 New Yorker article by Black feminist Toni Morrison who described Clinton as "our first black president. Blacker than any actual person who could ever be elected in our children's lifetime." She farther said:

"Clinton displays almost every trope of blackness: single-parent household, born poor, working-class, saxophone-playing, McDonald's-and-junk-food-loving boy from Arkansas."

ChuckE99 · 08-04-2008, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckE99

Was "Luke" really an "author"? If I take an existing story, weave in some other bits from other sources, then change a few words here and there to suit my own purposes, am I an "author" of the resulting work, or just an overstepping editor?

IIRC, Luke only uses about 50% of Mark. Also, you can't forget about Acts.

I'd say that's an author.

I forgot about Acts. But my point about GLuke remains. He used 50% of Mark, but the rest he got from other existing sources, especially Q. But Acts is a ripping good story, so I concede.

Chili · 08-04-2008, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckE99

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaleq13

IIRC, Luke only uses about 50% of Mark. Also, you can't forget about Acts.

I'd say that's an author.

I forgot about Acts. But my point about GLuke remains. He used 50% of Mark, but the rest he got from other existing sources, especially Q. But Acts is a ripping good story, so I concede.

Author for sure because Mark is bare-bone and can be fleshed out to send us to either heaven or hell. Matthew has no trough in the manger and therefore ends with the great commission [instead of resurrection] while Luke has a trough [to make us wise] and no great commission to make us look stupid but has a resurrection to change our own world instead.

Notice that Matthew takes us back to Galilee (which was meant to be only a detour to Israel) while Luke takes us on to Jerusalem.

amateurtheologian · 03-26-2009, 07:49 AM

"And Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart." Written by a woman.

dog-on · 03-26-2009, 08:06 AM

Luke, being a rewrite of an earlier work by a different sect, the first question should be this:

What was the role of women in the Marcionite Churches and did their role, if any, lend to a less male-centric view being evident in their scriptures?

Toto · 03-26-2009, 08:24 AM

Vridar

Quote:

Marcionite women were teachers or prophetesses

. . .

Tertullian ridicules Marcionite women for “flaunting their rigorist moral principles and impugning the purposes of the creator (AM 5:8.12; Praes. 41).

dog-on · 03-26-2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Vridar

Quote:

Marcionite women were teachers or prophetesses

. . .

Tertullian ridicules Marcionite women for “flaunting their rigorist moral principles and impugning the purposes of the creator (AM 5:8.12; Praes. 41).

Toto · 03-26-2009, 10:33 AM

There seem to have been a number of influential women in the early church in various factions, who were later written out of history or covered up as embarrassments.

There is the puzzling

Junia

Quote:

The problem of translating the name arises because, when the New Testament was composed, Greek was normally written without accents, although these already had been invented. If written with an acute accent on the penultimate syllable (Ἰουνίαν), the name is "Junia" (a woman's name); if with a circumflex accent on the final syllable (Ἰουνιᾶν), it is "Junias" (a man's). ... The overwhelming choice of the male form, (Ἰουνιᾶν), when in the 9th century accents were added in manuscripts, may have been influenced by the grammatical gender of these words, but it has also been attributed to a supposed bias on the part of scribes against the idea of a female apostle.

More on Junia

There was a woman named Philumena, a prophetess who channeled Paul for Marcion's breakaway disciple Apelles. Roger Parvus thinks she was the inspiration for the gospel of John. ("The Apellean Origin of the Fourth Gospel"

Clivedurdle · 03-26-2009, 04:12 PM

Interesting track back again to that allegedly heretical but probably real founders of this religion - the gnostics.

Quote:

Beguines and Beghards

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Beghards and Beguines were Roman Catholic lay religious communities active in the 13th and 14th century, living in a loose semi-monastic community but without formal vows. They were influenced by Albigensian teachings and by the Brethren of the Free Spirit, which flourished in and near Cologne around the same time but was condemned as heretical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beguines_and_Beghards

Not sure wiki has got this right, very interesting discussion on Radio 4 today about this important group I had never heard of!

What with Sophia and Lillith and God's wife this whole area needs a serious check. Making everything male was a political move - still is central to Catholic teaching for example that only men can be priests.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womansho...9_12_thu.shtml

Quote:

Spiritual cities of women

In the late twelfth century groups of women began to develop a new way of living – not within a marriage or nunnery, but within communities that became known as beguinages. Within their walls women could work and trade and have possessions. They were religious communities but their members did not make vows and in time they were to incur the wrath of the Pope and often endure terrible persecution. Yet many flourished, particularly in Belgium and the Netherlands. A new novel by Karen Maitland, “The Owl Killers”, imagines a beguinage in England. Karen talks to Jane about the lives of the beguines, with Pascal Majerus from Queen Mary University.

“The Owl Killers” by Karen Maitland is published by Michael Joseph, ISBN 978-0-718-15320-5

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03-26-2009, 07:49 AM	#34
amateurtheologian New Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: St. Paul, MN, midwestern United States Posts: 1	"And Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart." Written by a woman.

03-26-2009, 08:06 AM	#35
dog-on Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 3,397	Luke, being a rewrite of an earlier work by a different sect, the first question should be this: What was the role of women in the Marcionite Churches and did their role, if any, lend to a less male-centric view being evident in their scriptures?

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