FinBak

Correct.

Toto

Would you like to discuss your research? The issue is a little contentious.

gurugeorge

There are certain psychological states, sometimes called "hypnagogic", that are conducive to having quite real-seeming hallucinations. As a caveat, I should point out that it's normal to have hallucinations in these states (i.e. these kinds of visions are not caused by a pathological condition, like the kinds of hallucinations a schizophrenic person might have).

These kinds of states can be induced by a number of means - certain kinds of meditation, breathing exercises, repetition of words, prayers, mantras, etc., sleep deprivation, and of course drugs of various kinds (although certain drugs can have their own specific hallucinogenic effects too, a drug doesn't need to have its own psychedelic effects to be able to induce these kinds of hallucinations).

This is beginning to be explored by cognitive science - primarily because it sheds light on how the brain works - and we are in the early stages of understanding it. It's something to do with the way the brain models the world, and models itself as part of the world, combined with some kind of "tweaking" of the proprioceptive system.

The result is that one can feel that one is either travelling to places on the Earth, or places not on the Earth but in other "realms" of various kinds, or "planes" or whatever, and seem to oneself to be meeting and talking to entities of various kinds who actually talk back to one in a semi-sensible fashion (usually in gnomic utterances or sybilline, riddle-like language). Or, alternatively, one may think, not that one is going anywhere, but that the entities are coming into one's normal experience of the world. Or, alternatively, one can see all this happening in, e.g., a crystal ball, or a mirror, or something like that.

This is the primary source of nearly all religion, in the sense that most religion is about "discarnate intelligences" - gods, spirits, demons, etc., etc. - and the sense of travelling outside the body is the most likely original source of the "soul" concept.

IOW, without these kinds of experiences, we would have no such thing as religion, only philosophy and science, for it would never occur to anybody of normal intelligence and common sense to POSIT such entities (the most you could say is that philosophical intelligence might posit God). It's peoples subjective, real-seeming EXPERIENCE of such entities (and then their conviction in telling others about them) that is the primary source of religion.

FinBak

TOTO. Sorry for the late reply, i have no excuse apart from other comitments. The issue i raised is a LOT contentious. I agree. My research envolved reading the bible back to front many times and various web articles and many books and also my own experiences. I think that qualifies me to say what i said..

scamp

The drug of choice for Hebrews and centuries later Christian's is the Amanita Muscaria - a poisonious mushroom. It was first used by the civilization that pre-dated the Semitic cultures. the Sumeran's. Located at the North end of the Persian Gulf...today's Iraq and Iran's southern sections. The library's discovered at NIPPUR & URUK - has books dating back to 3500 BCE & describe this plant to perfection. What it does not describe and has never been written down is HOW the 'healers' of that time period broke down this poisonious plant for use. That was a secret you could be killed for if you interfered in the 'high priest's' business.

A drawing of this 'tree' shown as the 'tree' of good & evil was discovered in France and dates to around 1350CE. It's shows Eve along side the tree. It's the only known drawing of 'picture' of the 'tree' of good and evil.

The scientific writings on thios can be located : John M Allegro - The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross - Fertility Cults and the Orgins of Judaism and Christianity (or via: amazon.co.uk).

This picture "fresco" can be located on page 75A.

VISIONS: Paul was said to have finally 'seen the light' about Jesus while on the road traveling. He had what was called an epiphemy. Same thing as a vision. Just take powerful drugs and you get this same thing going on. You can even 'speak in tongues' because you're so drugged up.

It's all a lie. People get drugged up and have these brain drains and we dismiss them as crazy. Paul hated Christian's. He held the coats of these people as the Roman soldiers beat them to death. He was an accessory to multiple assaults and murders. Then - he tells everyone he had an epiphemy (VISION) and he's now a hero? Come on good people! Christian's and an awful lot of their doctrine comes from this Saul/Paul fool. He's a murderer and a con artist of the 9th degree. Yet Christian's believe it is the 'word of god'. You've really got to be kidding me - really.

spamandham

We really don't know much about how Paul persecuted other Jewish sects. What's in Acts is legendary in nature, leaving us with only Paul's own words on the matter, and he says very little about it.

We do know this much from his letters. When Paul shows up at the Jerusalem church, there is no indication that they were afraid of him, annoyed yes, but not fearful. If he had really been murdering fellow Jews as accused, surely they would have run him through when he showed up rather than just arguing among themselves whether or not to accept him.

FinBak

Yes SCAMP. But it still leves the Question. Were these Bible folk taking "Weed" as it were? and or alcohol?....I think that they were...How could they be serious about the Bible if they were not taking some sort of drug.

arnoldo

Visions can also be symbolic of deeper spiritual truths. In addition they can be a prophetic sign as indicated by Joel 2:28

You can find a great deal of visions on the following website for your research on the following website;

http://www.etpv.org/

Sheshbazzar

Might I point out that there are many 'believers' who are deadly serious about the Bible, and do not smoke, drink, nor 'do' any psychoactive drugs?

A thing about 'belief', is that belief builds upon previous belief.
That composit 'belief' may be factually wrong in its premises and conclusions, but that fact is totally irrelevant to true 'believers'. For them, the reality becomes whatever it is that they deeply and sincerely 'believe' it to be.
They would rather die (as it were become 'Martyrs') for their 'beliefs' 'visions' and 'dreams' than to ever give them up.
To a true 'believer', none of what he believes to be true, is ever a lie.
And whoever challenges his beliefs is ipso facto, the one that is a lying servant of the Satan.
One does not need any form of drugs to become convinced of ones self-rightness.
And The Bible is well contrived so as to manipulate low self-esteem and self-loathing into a submissive slavery to its ideals, and to reinforce 'delusions of grandeur', and prime the pump of 'hope' for a silly, if not totally insane, future manifestation of a Divine Dictatorship, one where the True Believers (tm), believe, they will get to say "nah nah neh nah nah" essentially, to anyone who ever questioned the right-ness of their beliefs.
One does not need drugs to get suckered into a mind-control cult.

FinBak

Sheshbazzar. You can point out as many things as you like. It makes no difference..What you do or say.