Biff the unclean

Why are we so lucky to have Jesus for God? With all the other thousands and thousands of Gods the odds against Jesus being God are astronomical!!!!
What stops Jesus from being Dionysus?
So why is reality as it is when there are so many ways that it could be different? Shouldn't reality then be different? Don't the odds favor anything other than what is? How could we be so lucky?
If you pick one grain of sand up at the beach the odds are billions to one that you would have picked up that one grain and not another, therefore you couldn't have possibly picked it up. You couldn't possibly be lucky enough to have picked that one grain.

wyzaard

Because for them... this is about faith, not reason. They have already assumed from the start that they possess transcendental, inassailiable knowledge that you do not; for them, there are no counter-indicators... but as they at least PLAY the part of the reasonable person, they have a tendancy to get confused when their pseudo-reasons are exposed so openly.

wyzaard

Again, molecules are not evenly interchangable legos... self-replication might be more within the bounds of probability than adding a new amino chain, as the structure of the chain has specific chemical avenues open for bonding that might make the replicative reaction more likely. And what says a longer chain might not be useful elsewhere? It's been observed that various chains of amino acids and other non-replicative compounds can serve as cataylists and inhibitors for other reactions... such as the crystaline structure of clays.

And honestly... if DNA, RNA, enzymes and the like obey natural laws, and we've been given no reason to believe that they don't, then this argument is a moot point: a large amount of material and energy was present, and these constituent reactions were not only possible, but given many possible self-ordered arrangements... probable.

lee_merrill

Hi everyone,

Because my choice of who to believe in as God was more than a random one? If there are criteria, we can narrow down the field, and not have to make a random choice.

Erm, why should it be different? I don't think we really know enough to address this one...

Yes, but are amino acids like that? It seems they may well be.

Sure, but it might not be, so then we need to look at what is probable. It seems the assumption here is that it is more probable that amino acids stop being added, and yet that seems to me to be the improbable choice here.

What happens in the cell is when the protein gets made, it is then folded, and this (I would expect) then keeps the protein from being modified, and then it can head off and do its function. So is this self-replicating molecule going to fold at just the right time? And in such a way as to prevent other amino acids from latching onto it? Does it fold at all? That I don't know, but the case being made here requires that some transition from molecule-building to molecule function be happening.

Well, that would be what is under discussion! A conclusion is not yet an argument...

Regards,
Lee

Biff the unclean

Are you playing dim or what? Because you are saying that you are the one who got to pick Jesus as God. Notice here that I’m talking about facts and not beliefs, just as you were talking about facts and amino acids. I don’t really care what you personally believe, I care about facts.
You wanted to know What stops the amino acid chain from adding another amino acid, once we have our needed molecule? Why are we so lucky, once we get our molecule by adding amino acids, that then the new molecule is whisked away to an environment where it can now self-replicate, instead of adding on more amino acids? You wanted to know why the reality of amino acids wasn’t different. I want to know why the reality of Gods isn’t different. It’s the same sort of question that you just asked. Why are we so lucky that God is who He is and not different?

I just asked because you just asked the same question.
To be as it is at this very second realty can be only one possible way. Yet to be different than it is this very second reality could be different in billions and billions of different ways. Odds are against reality being real in your line of thinking.

That’s what you were pointing out about amino acids. To behave as they behave now they have to exist as they exist now. If they were different then life as we know it would be different. Maybe it wouldn’t exist at all. The odds against them being as they are now, you seem to think are small…considering.

Dionysus is hardly different from Jesus at all. A few minor changes in their stories… much, much less than even a little thing like adding more amino acids. So why are we so lucky to get Jesus? Sure, but it might not be, so then we need to look at what is probable. It seems the assumption here is that it is more probable that amino acids stop being added, and yet that seems to me to be the improbable choice here. And it seems to me that with all the thousands of different Gods people have believed in that it’s improbable that Jesus would be the one to turn out to be God.
I’d like an answer please. If you consider it a stupid question that doesn’t deserve consideration then I’d like to know why you asked it yourself.

Naked Ape

Playing?

lee_merrill

That would be a similar question if God was changing! Different views on God don't mean God must be changing, or that it must be possible for him to have differences in in his nature just because people have these different ideas about him.

Regards,
Lee

Naked Ape

How do you know god isn't changing?

How do you know how many gods exist?

Cheers,

Naked Ape

Biff the unclean

You are so used to giving pat answers that you can’t even reply to a question you have never heard before about God. You are giving me answers that have nothing to do with what I’ve asked.

You had demanded to know why amino acids did not behave differently than they do in reality. You wanted to know why they didn’t behave as if they were different acids with different properties than the amino acids in our reality. Our amino acids aren’t changing, they are behaving exactly as our amino acids behave. For some reason you think these properties are unlikely.

You are claiming also that Jesus God is real so I’m asking you the same question about the real God that you asked about the real amino acids…why isn’t God different since the odds that God is who He is are so very small? I didn’t ask you what ideas people had about Him, just as you didn’t ask what people imagined about amino acids. That’s completely irrelevant to the real properties of real things. You wanted to know why the properties of amino acids weren’t something you considered more likely and I’m asking the exact same question about Jesus God.

John A. Broussard

Jesus God is perfect, therefore cannot be any different. Being different would mean that Jesus God wasn't perfect in the first place.

Amino acids are perfect, since they are the result of intelligent design. For possiblilities of being different see above comment.

As lee has demonstrated over and over again, it's fun writing meaningless answers about something we know absolutely nothing about.

Next question.