Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ApostateAbe · 07-12-2011, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beallen041

Ehrman from Forged (or via: amazon.co.uk):

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart Ehrman

Ancient people also had a more nuanced sense of truth and falsehood; they too had stories that they accepted as “true” in some sense without thinking that they actually happened. Most scholars today recognize that the majority of educated people in ancient Greece and Rome did not literally believe that the myths about the gods had actually happened historically. They were stories intending to convey some kind of true understanding of the divine realm and humans’ relationship to it.

That quote was a surprise to me, but then I noticed the word, "educated," which makes a big difference. On page 19 of The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings, 3rd edition (or via: amazon.co.uk), Ehrman writes:

In the early Christian world... Most people were uneducated and 90 percent could not read.

beallen041 · 07-12-2011, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

Quote:

Originally Posted by beallen041

Ehrman from Forged:

That quote was a surprise to me, but then I noticed the word, "educated," which makes a big difference. On page 19 of The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings, 3rd edition (or via: amazon.co.uk), Ehrman writes:

In the early Christian world... Most people were uneducated and 90 percent could not read.

Yes, but it's quite clear that anyone who wrote the NT or commented on it could read.

ApostateAbe · 07-12-2011, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beallen041

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApostateAbe

That quote was a surprise to me, but then I noticed the word, "educated," which makes a big difference. On page 19 of The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings, 3rd edition (or via: amazon.co.uk), Ehrman writes:

In the early Christian world... Most people were uneducated and 90 percent could not read.

Yes, but it's quite clear that anyone who wrote the NT or commented on it could read.

I agree with that.

bootsie · 07-12-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beallen041

On page 19 of The New Testament: A Historical Introduction to the Early Christian Writings, 3rd edition (or via: amazon.co.uk), Ehrman writes:

In the early Christian world... Most people were uneducated and 90 percent could not read.

I think it was the previous pope that said that 60% of the world's catholics were poor and illiterate. But this is not the case in America. Today, people go to school and supposedly get educated. But when it comes to fundamentalist religion, they are not educated, they are indoctrinated. As a result, rational thought is not an option.

andrewcriddle · 07-13-2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beallen041

Ehrman from Forged:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart Ehrman

Ancient people also had a more nuanced sense of truth and falsehood; they too had stories that they accepted as “true” in some sense without thinking that they actually happened. Most scholars today recognize that the majority of educated people in ancient Greece and Rome did not literally believe that the myths about the gods had actually happened historically. They were stories intending to convey some kind of true understanding of the divine realm and humans’ relationship to it.

You may have to distinguish different types of myth.

At one extreme we have something like the Trojan War which ancient educated people would have regarded as largely historical. At the other extreme we have Zeus castrating his father Kronos, which would have been regarded by educated people as some sort of allegory.

Andrew Criddle

dog-on · 07-13-2011, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by beallen041

Ehrman from Forged:

You may have to distinguish different types of myth.

At one extreme we have something like the Trojan War which ancient educated people would have regarded as largely historical. At the other extreme we have Zeus castrating his father Kronos, which would have been regarded as some sort of allegory.

Andrew Criddle

So, which side does JC fall on?

andrewcriddle · 07-13-2011, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

You may have to distinguish different types of myth.

At one extreme we have something like the Trojan War which ancient educated people would have regarded as largely historical. At the other extreme we have Zeus castrating his father Kronos, which would have been regarded as some sort of allegory.

Andrew Criddle

So, which side does JC fall on?

As an account set in recent times, involving real places and people (eg Pontius Pilate) an ancient educated person reading one of the Gospels would have probably regarded it as claiming to be basically true. It might have been regarded as distorted Christian propaganda but not IMO as basically allegorical in intent.

Andrew Criddle

dog-on · 07-13-2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

So, which side does JC fall on?

As an account set in recent times, involving real places and people (eg Pontius Pilate) an ancient educated person reading one of the Gospels would have probably regarded it as claiming to be basically true. It might have been regarded as distorted Christian propaganda but not IMO as basically allegorical in intent.

Andrew Criddle

So more of a Trojan War type of myth, as opposed to a Zeus cut off his daddy's balls type of myth.

I see.

beallen041 · 07-13-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by dog-on

So, which side does JC fall on?

As an account set in recent times, involving real places and people (eg Pontius Pilate) an ancient educated person reading one of the Gospels would have probably regarded it as claiming to be basically true. It might have been regarded as distorted Christian propaganda but not IMO as basically allegorical in intent.

Andrew Criddle

So "The Golden Ass" would also be understood as propaganda and not basically allegorical in intent, given that it was also set in recent times and involved real places.

premjan · 07-13-2011, 02:28 PM

It might have been a sort of Greek tragedy.

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07-13-2011, 02:28 PM	#30
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	It might have been a sort of Greek tragedy.

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