Jeffrey Gibson

No, you are not. Otherwise you would take into account the facts pointed out to you that nothing in the Greek text of Mt. 1:18 supports your claims about what Mt. 1:18 says.

Jeffrey

No Robots

We by nature are Jews—Gal 2:15

And I became to the Jews, a Jew, that I might gain the Jews—1Cor 9:20

They are Hebrews: so am I. They are Israelites: so am I. They are the seed of Abraham: so am I.—2Cor 11:22

For you, brethren, are become followers of the churches of God which are in Judea—1Thes 2:14

aa5874

I am dealing directly with the OP.

The poster has been responding to my questions about the OP.

The poster claim to accept the NT as historical, so I have asked the poster to identify the passage in the NT where there is an historical account of Jesus as a Jew.

GMatthew and gLuke contain accounts of the conception and the birth of Jesus which are pertinent and directly related to the OP.

The parentage and place of birth of real person is almost always related to nationality to some degree.

What part of the conception, birth, place of birth, and parentage, as described in the NT, does the poster of the OP accept as historical?

Toto

There is an assumption here that the NT is historical, at least in part. That is not the question. Any more off topic posts will be split.

Jeffrey Gibson

This is, as Gal. 1:14 makes clear, a report of a speech that Paul gave to Cephas in Antioch. It says nothing about the ethnic identity of the Galatians to whom Paul addressed his epistle.

which is continued with a note from Paul about how he became like a Gentile in order to gain Gentiles.

Which a boast made in response to the claims of the the "super apostles" who came into the Corinthian congregation preaching a gospel of circumscision.

None of these statements are about the recipients of Galatians and/or the Corinthian correspondence.

"are become"? In any case, to be a follower of the Churches of God does not mean that one was born and raised as a Jew. According to Paul, the members of the ekklessia at Thessalonika were ethnic Gentiles. Cf. his state,emt in 1 Thess 1:19 that the members of the community were those who had “turned to God from idols, to serve a living and true God” .

Jeffrey

Toto

Thanks, this is a good summary of the debate. There is also a good comment here from April DeConick:

aa5874

Now, what made a person a Jew in the first century? Was it just being circumcised? Or was it related to ancestry,parentage or genealogy?

If, for the sake of argument, the NT is regarded as historical, it will be noticed that it is not known if the so-called Mary was a Jew.

Again, if for argument sake the NT is regarded as historical, then the father of Jesus is as gMatthew or gLuke described, the God of the Jews, or if gMatthew or Luke are rejected, then the father of Jesus is unknown.

From the NT, it cannot really be determined if Jesus was a Jew through genealogy, ancestry or parentage.

In the so called "Pauline" epistles, there are persons who were circumcised who were not described as Jews, therefore circumcision does not make a person a Jew.

Even if the NT is regarded as historical, there is actually no information to confirm that Jesus of the NT was a Jew.

Toto

Matt 1 contains a geneology of Jesus that attempts to link him to Jewish patriarchs. (Luke contains a different geneology.) Perhaps the geneology fails for Jesus, but it clearly establishes that Joseph was a Jew, so his betrothed, Mary, must also have been Jewish. Since Mary is Jewish, this makes Jesus Jewish.

Luke goes further, and states that Mary was a relative of Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptist, and the wife of the priest Zechariah. He then has Jesus circumcized and purified at the Temple.

No one seriously thinks that these passages are historical, but clearly the Jesus portrayed in the gospels is Jewish.

aa5874

If for argument sake the NT is regarded as historical, Joseph is not the father of Jesus of the NT.

And both genealogies found in the NT of Joseph cannot be historical.

Toto

We're not talking about history here. We are talking about how the character in the gospels is portrayed. He is portrayed as Jewish.