Originally Posted by KrisK10

I'm tired of trying to sift through the combative part of exchanges for the real arguments. IMHO, the best one can do is make their most rigorous argument available ...

Originally Posted by DCHindley

I poked around a bit.

Tektonics.org is the web name of Tekton Apologetics Ministries Inc, based in Ocoee, FL, halfway between Orlando and Apopka, FL. It was formally incorporated as a not-for-profit corp on 4/28/2000. The officers were Robert Turkel, Keven Spires and Warren French. They don't file a 990 tax form because they have revenues less than $25,000. This might explain why he seeks donations. He is aso said to be presently operating a "financial services" business, which probably means he sells casualty or possibly life insurance as an independent agent.

The address is that of a roughly 1,800 Sq Ft, 3 BR, 2 bath private residence built in 1991, valued at $115,000 by the county auditor in 2008. I'm going to step out on a limb and assume it is Holding's own house. That is a decent house, but not a mansion (I live in a roughly equivalent house here in Warren, Ohio, although it is worth more here). For that area of Florida, that's fairly big (I used to live in Orlando - Belle Isle - and know that area pretty well, although that development didn't even exist when I moved to Cape Canaveral in the early 80s, it was either farm land or orchards then). FWIW, comedian Jim Varney was a native of Apopka, FL.

He used to work for the FL Dept of Corections at the Lake Correctional Institute, Clermont, FL, where he even received recognition in 1999 for lowering the rate of unreturned library books. He claims he has a MA degree in library science. All I know is his job at the prison ended, he says he voluntarily resigned or retired as part of a cost savings effort by the DOC. That suggests he received early retirement benefits (usually quite a bit less than retiring at the regular time) and possibly also a cash buy-out (it may not have been that much).

There is a YouTube video of someone who claims to be a friend of Robert Turkel, and says he was born James Patrick Holding, but it was changed to Robert Turkel in his youth, then changed back to James Patrick Holding as an adult. There is a MyLife page for a Robert Patrick Turkel in Ocoee, FL, showing his age as 41. This is more than likely the apologist.

There is a Dr Robert A Turkel, 74, a retired cardiologist, in Tampa, FL, who does appear to be related to Holding. A Dr Keven Spires practices Urology in Brookfield near Tampa, FL. Warren French was active in decorating a float sponsored by the Orange County Library System in 2006, but he seems to be off the Radar. He may live in Clarcona, where the ministry has its Post Office box. His mother goes by Turkel, but his sister goes by Holding, both living in Orlando area.

If he Holding/Turkel legally changed his name to J P Holding (again?) around 2002 (?), my guess is he was adopted, possibly by a step father, but reconnected with his birth father later in life and/or had a falling out with his step father. That might explain why he presently doesn't like using the name Turkel.

Hey, if you ask me, he seems like a stressed-out guy who is trying desperately to make sense of his world, and he decided that it had to involve a literal, fundamentalist Christian understanding of God. I understand he is a Baptist.

The Orlando Florida area is not, belive it or not, really part of the Bible Belt (about 60% of the population in the mid 1980s were transplants from other states - the same proportion as California FWIW). I would not describe it as particularly sophisticated (although the suburbs north of town in Seminole County, like Winter Park, Altamonte Springs and Longwood, can be fairly swanky), but rather more folksy. The area is known for growing juice oranges, pumpkins and beef cattle.

Of course, Disney World is just south of Apopka and West of Orlando, and a big part of the local economy, and so Orlando has an economy built around entertainment. When I lived there, a Christian con-artist got a number of churches and their members to invest in a proposed Christian center that would promote Christian values, Christian art, and a Christian retirement community. It turned out to be a scam that raked in $Millions. Perhaps a segment of the local population is, um, gullible as well.

Why are folks letting this guy get under their skins?!?!

DCH

Originally Posted by Roger Pearse

Myself I'm deeply, deeply tired of reading stuff that at bottom consists of someone barking like a dog, while the real question remains unresolved. When I see someone doing it, I don't really care who they are barking at. I just stop my ears to the godawful noise. I doubt I am alone.

Originally Posted by KrisK10

... my book (or via: amazon.co.uk) ...

Originally Posted by Celsus

No offense but whoever designed the cover to that book needs to be shot hung drawn and quartered. And then some.

Originally Posted by Celsus

No offense but whoever designed the cover to that book needs to be shot hung drawn and quartered. And then some.

Originally Posted by Celsus

Well heh. Off the top of my head, I'd use something like Grunewald's Crucifixion and Resurrection for their suitably dark backgrounds - as two 'faces' of your black box (in 3D isometric). Then top would be your name, followed by the title, below the box is your subtitle, and then below that in tiny letters because your wording is terrible (sorry), the "An inquiry..." bit. Colours... would use a brown, fairly stereotypical parchment kind of texture as the background, with perhaps some sort of glow seeming to come from the box (between the two panels of Jesus' death and resurrection). I could do it in Photoshop in about 15 mins but I'm too lazy to attempt it.