Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mountainman · 02-26-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Then there is the Greek translation of "nations" and "gentiles"
ἔθνος "ethnos"

Does this greek work appear in the greek of the Testimonium Flavianum as displayed on Ben's Greek textus receptus?

Quote:

Χριστιανων απο τουδε10b

Toto · 02-26-2009, 09:59 PM

The word translated as tribe is το φυλον = phylon

There is some useful discussion of this term in Peter Kirby's essay.

Quote:

... a reference to Christianity as a tribe (phylon) is found in Justin Martyr (Dialogue 119.4), and such a reference is found in Eusebius himself (Ecclesiastical History 3.33.2, 3.33.3).

mountainman · 02-27-2009, 02:06 PM

I am having a problem correlating the greek between Peter's and Ben's "textus receptus" on the basis that the english translations are slightly different. From Peter's page:

Quote:

He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles.

but from Ben's page:

Quote:

many Jews on the one hand and also many of the Greeks on the other he drew to himself

How is this difference to be resolved?
Is the greek "ethnos" in the text?

Toto · 02-27-2009, 02:53 PM

Ethnos is not in the text, but phylon is a synonym.

Ben's page has "και πολλους μεν Ιουδαιους,[4] πολλους δε και[5] του Ελληνικου "

Ελληνικου = Hellenic literally refers to Greek, but is translated at times as Gentiles. I think this was a common usage - "Greek" referred to the citizens of the Roman Empire, who were culturally Hellenistic and spoke Koine Greek. Paul contrasts Jews and Greeks, and I am sure that he was not confining "Greek" to people that lived in the successors to Greek city-states.

This is pushing the limits of my Greek, so someone else may have a better take on it. But I don't see a problem.

eta: don't be confused by the modern notions of "nation." This was well before the rise of the modern nation-state with its well defined notion of citizens based on geography and loyalty.

gentleexit · 02-27-2009, 04:01 PM

Information for the ignorant. Did Jews have a (Greek) word for "Greek speaking Jew" vs aramaic speaker/more traditional Jew? In other words, for diaspora Jew vs Palestinian etc?

It seems like a natural distinction, given the tensions over the years between how Greek Judaism should be and most groups distinguish subgroups with labels.

I suppose I'm getting at what Paul meant by Greeks/Gentiles?

Sheshbazzar · 02-27-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Ethnos is not in the text, but phylon is a synonym.

Ben's page has "και πολλους μεν Ιουδαιους,[4] πολλους δε και[5] του Ελληνικου "

Ελληνικου = Hellenic literally refers to Greek, but is translated at times as Gentiles. I think this was a common usage - "Greek" referred to the citizens of the Roman Empire, who were culturally Hellenistic and spoke Koine Greek. Paul contrasts Jews and Greeks, and I am sure that he was not confining "Greek" to people that lived in the successors to Greek city-states.

This is pushing the limits of my Greek, so someone else may have a better take on it. But I don't see a problem.

eta: don't be confused by the modern notions of "nation." This was well before the rise of the modern nation-state with its well defined notion of citizens based on geography and loyalty.

I was slow on the draw with this one, but I agree with what Toto has presented, and believe our Greek experts would also agree.

Jeffrey Gibson · 02-27-2009, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gentleexit

Information for the ignorant. Did Jews have a (Greek) word for "Greek speaking Jew" vs aramaic speaker/more traditional Jew? In other words, for diaspora Jew vs Palestinian etc?

Yes. See below.

Quote:

It seems like a natural distinction, given the tensions over the years between how Greek Judaism should be and most groups distinguish subgroups with labels.

I suppose I'm getting at what Paul meant by Greeks/Gentiles?

Quote:

Ἕλλην, ηνος, ὁ a Greek (so Hdt.+)—1. a man of Greek language and culture (opp. βάρβαρος, like Thu. 1, 1, 2 et al.; Philo, Ebr. 193 al.; Jos., Ant. 4, 12al.—UWilcken, Hellenen u. Barbaren: NJklA 17, ’06, 457-71; JJüthner, Hell. u. Bar. ’23; HRiesenfeld, Con. Neot. 9, ’44, 1ff) Ro 1:14.
2. in the broader sense, all persons who came under the influence of Greek, i.e. pagan, culture.
a. Gentile, pagan, heathen (2 Macc 4:36; 11:2; 3 Macc 3:8; 4 Macc 18:20; Sib. Or. 5, 265; Phot., Bibl. 62, 8:219 Jac. τὴν θρησκείαν Ἕλλην) J 7:35; Ac 9:29 v.l. (for Ἑλληνιστάς); 11:20 (v.l. Ἑλληνιστάς); 16:1, 3; 21:28; 1 Cor 1:22; Gal 2:3; PK 2 p. 14, 1; 7; p. 15, 7; Dg 1; 3:3; 5:17. The expr. Ἰουδαῖοι καὶ Ἕλληνες, which clearly indicates Israel’s advantages fr. the Jewish standpoint, embraces the whole human race Ac 14:1; 18:4; 19:10, 17; 20:21; Ro 1:16; 2:9f; 3:9; 10:12; 1 Cor 1:24; 10:32; 12:13; Gal 3:28; Col 3:11 (Wilcken, Chrest. 55, 6 [III bc] παρὰ τῶν Ἰουδαίων καὶ τῶν Ἑλλήνων does not mean to indicate that the Jews have any special privilege [despite the fact that Ἰ. comes before Ἑ.]. Here the expression is used in a pagan source. Cf. also Epict. 2, 9, 19 τί ὑποκρίνῃ Ἰουδαῖον ὢν Ἕλλην=why do you play the part of a Jew, when you are actually a Greek?).
b. used of proselytes (cf. Jos., Bell. 7, 45) J 12:20. οἱ σεβόμενοι Ἕλληνες God-fearing Gentiles Ac 17:4.—L Weniger, Jesus u. d. Griechen: NJklA 41, ’18, 477-80; JLeipoldt, Jesu Verh. zu Griech. u. Juden ’41. On the whole word-group: HWindisch, TW II 501-14. M-M., and esp. B. 1489.*
Ἑλληνικός, ή, όν (Aeschyl., Hdt.+; inscr.; PWien Bosw. 7, 17; LXX; Ep. Arist. 38; Philo; Jos., Ant. 12, 240; 263) Greek Lk 23:38 t.r.; ἐν τῇ Ἑ. (sc. γλώσσῃ) in the Greek language Rv 9:11.*
Ἑλληνίς, ίδος, ἡ (trag., Thu.+; inscr.; PGiess. 36, 10; 2 Macc 6:8).
1. as adj.—a. Greek (opp. βάρβαρος) πόλις (Nicol. Dam.: 90 fgm. 136, 10 Jac.; Ael. Aristid. 24, 29 K.=44 p. 833 D.; Jos., Ant. 17, 320; 18, 377 al.) Dg 5:4.—b. Gentile (cf. Ἕλλην 2a) γυνή Ac 17:12.
2. as subst. ἡ Ἑ. Gentile woman Mk 7:26.—S. Συροφοινίκισσα and Χαναναῖος. M-M.*
Ἑλληνιστής, οῦ, ὁ a Hellenist, a Greek-speaking Jew in contrast to one speaking a Semitic lang. (Chrysost., Hom. 14 on Ac 6:1 and Hom. 21 on Ac 9:29 ed. Montf. IX 111; 169) Ac 6:1; 9:29; 11:20 v.l.—Zahn, Einl. I 41; 51; GPWetter, ARW 21, ’22, 410ff; HJCadbury: Beginn. I 5, ’33, 59-74; ECBlackman, ET 48, ’37, 524f; CFDMoule, ET 70, ’58/’59, 100-102; MSimon, St. Stephen and the Hellenists in the Primitive Church, ’58.*

µ Ἑλληνικός, ή, όν, Hellenic, Greek, Hdt.4.108, etc.
2. ἑλληνική (sc. γλῶσσα), ἡ, the Greek language, Apoc.9.11.
3. τὸ Ἑ. the Greeks collectively, Hdt.7.139, al.; Greek soldiery, X.An.1.4.13.
b. Greek culture, D.H.1.89: pl., Hdt.4.78.
4. τὰ Ἑ. the history of Greek affairs. Th.1.97, etc.; title of works by X., Theopomp.Hist., etc.; Greek literature, App.BC4.67.
II. like the Greeks, οὐ .. πατρῷον τόνδ᾽ ἐδεξάμην νόμον, οὐδ᾽ Ἑ. E.Alc.684, cf. Ar.Ach.115, Plu.Luc.41: Comp. -ώτερος Id.Comp.Lyc.Num.1; ἡ συγγνώμη τῆς τιμωρίας -ώτερον Lib.Ep.75.4: Sup. -ώτατος D.19.308, D.H.1.89. Adv. -κῶς in Greek fashion, Hdt.4.108, E.IT660, Antiph.184.
III. pure Greek, οὐχ Ἑ. λέξις Orusap.Eust.859.55, cf. Ael.Dion.Fr.207, S.E.M.1.187. Adv. -κῶς in pure Greek, opp. βαρβαρικῶς, Phld.Lib.p.13 O., cf. S.E.M.1.243, Porph.Abst.3.3.
2. in Hellenistic Greek, opp. Ἀττικῶς, Moer.1, al.; but also, opp. κοινόν ‘in common speech’, Id.347, al.
IV. pagan, Lxx2Ma.4.10, al., Jul.Ep.84a, Suid. s.v. Διοκλητιανός.
µ
= denotes defintions added or revised in accordance with instructions in the Supplement.

Quote:

ἐθνικός, ή, όν (since Polyb. 30, 13, 6; BGU 1764, 13 [I bc]=national; Philo, Mos. 1, 69; 188=national; so also Jos., Ant. 12, 36)in Christian usage (a Christian source in Epigr. Gr. 430, 6 [III/IV ad] ἐθνικῇ ἐν σοφίᾳ=in pagan learning) Gentile, heathen φιλίαι ἐθνικαί friendships w. heathen Hm 10, 1, 4. In the NT only as subst. ὁ ἐθνικός the Gentile in contrast to the Jew Mt 5:47; 6:7; 3J 7. W. τελώνης Mt 18:17. M-M.*
ἐθνικῶς adv. (Apollon. Dysc., Synt. p. 190, 5 Bekker; Diog. L. 7, 56 ἐθνικῶς τε καὶ ἑλληνικῶς) in Christian usage like the heathen ζῆν live, in contrast to the Jewish way of life Gal 2:14.*
ἔθνος, ους, τό (Hom.+; inscr., pap., LXX, Ep. Arist., Philo, Joseph., Test. 12 Patr.).
1. nation, people τὸ ἔ τῆς Σαμαρείας the Samaritan people Ac 8:9 (cf. Jos., Ant. 18, 85).τῶν Ἰουδαίων 10:22 (Polyb. in Jos., Ant. 12, 135; Agatharchides in Jos., Ant. 12, 6; Diod. S. 34+35 fgm. 1, 2 τὸ τῶν Ἰουδαίων ἔθνος; Philo, Decal. 96 al.); δώδεκα ἔ. Hs 9, 17, 2.—B 13:2 (Gen 25:23); ἔθνη ἑπτὰ ἐν γῇ Χανάαν seven nations in Canaan Ac 13:19 (Dt 7:1). The people in contrast to kings 9:15. ἔθνος ἐπὶ ἔθνος one nation against another Mt 24:7; Mk 13:8; Lk 21:10 (cf. 2 Ch 15:6); πάντα τὰ ἔ. (Appian, Bell. Civ. 2, 106 §440 ἐν ἔθνεσιν ἅπασι; Jos., Ant. 11, 215ἅπαντα τὰ ἔ.) Mt 24:14; 28:19; Mk 11:17 (Is 56:7); 13:10. More specif. πάντα τὰ ἔ. τοῦ κόσμου Lk 12:30; cf. 1 Cl 59:4; 2 Cl 13:2. πᾶν ἔθνος ἀνθρώπων every nation of mankind Ac 17:26. ἄρχοντες ἐθνῶν Mt 20:25. For this οἱ δοκοῦντες ἄρχειν τῶν ἐ. Mk 10:42; οἱ βασιλεῖς τῶν ἐ. Lk 22:25.
2. (τὰ) ἔθνη (corresp. to Heb. גּוֹיִם in LXX; usu. in Gk. for foreigners, also: Aristot., Pol. 1324b, 10 [opp. Ἕλληνες]; Ael. Aristid. 45, p. 3 Dind.; Cass. Dio 36, 41; Ps.-Callisth. 2, 7, 4 [opp. ἡ Ἑλλάς]; CIA II 445-8 [c. 150 bc]; Dit., Syll.3 760, 3; PStrassb. 22, 19; PFay. 20, 11; this is an expression favored by Appian in Rome for the foreign peoples in contrast to the Italians: Bell. Civ. 2, 26 §99; 2, 28 §107; 3, 35 §140; 4, 57 §246 and oft.; cf. Nägeli 46) heathen, pagans, Gentiles, w. ἡγεμόνες κ. βασιλεῖς Mt 10:18. Named w. the Jews (Jos., Ant. 13, 196; cf. Sib. Or. 3, 663) Ac 14:5; 21:21; 26:17; Ro 3:29; 9:24; 15:10 (Dt 32:43); ISm 1:2. They, too, are to share in salvation Ac 11:1, 18; 14:27; 15:3, 7 (MKiddle, The Admission of the Gentiles in Lk and Ac: JTS 36, ’35, 160-73; JoachJeremias, Jesu Verheissung für die Völker ’56 [lit.], Eng. transl. Jesus’ Promise to the Nations ’58). But s. Mt 10:5f and cf. MornaDHooker, ET 82, ’71, 361-65. Contrasted w. Christians Hs 1:10. Of Gentile Christian churches: πᾶσαι αἱ ἐκκλησίαι τῶν ἐθνῶν Ro 16:4, and their members: μετὰ τῶν ἐθνῶν συνήσθιεν it was his custom to eat w. Gentile Christians Gal 2:12; cf. vs. 14. ὑπὲρ ὑμῶν τῶν ἐθνῶν for you Gentile Christians Eph 3:1. Somet. the word has the connotation of relig. and moral inferiority which was taken for granted by the Jews Mt 6:32 (cf. Gdspd., Probs., 26f); Lk 12:30; Hm 4, 1, 9; ἔ. καὶ ἁμαρτωλοί s 4:4 al. Pagans as subjects of conversion 2 Cl 13:3. Prejudiced against the Christians ITr 8:2; ἄνομα ἔ. lawless heathen MPol 9:2. Contrasted w. the δίκαιοι (w. ἀποστάται) Hv 1, 4, 2; cf. 2, 2, 5.—KLSchmidt, TW II 362-70. M-M. B. 1315; 1489.

ἐθνικός, ή, όν, national, συστάσεις Plb.30.13.6; διαστάσεις Id.4.21.2; χρεῖαι D.S.18.13; ἰδιότητες Phld.Rh.1.154 S.; διαφοραί Str.2.3.1.
II. foreign, gentile, Ev.Matt.5.47; ἐθνικῇ .. ἐν σοφία Epigr.Gr.430.6.Adv. -κῶς, opp. Ἰουδαϊκῶς, Ep.Gal.2.14.
b. in the Roman Empire, provincial, Cod.Just.12.63.2.6.
III. Gramm., indicating nationality, Str.14.2.28, D.T.636.11, A.D.Synt.190.20. Adv. -κῶς, παραχθέν ib.5, cf. Str.4.1.1, D.L.7.56.
2. dialectal, ἔθος A.D.Synt.46.1.
IV. ἐθνικός, ὁ, tax-collector, POxy.126.13 (vi. a.d.)
ἐθνίτης [ῑ], ου, ὁ, of the same nation, Eust.901.9, Suid.; ἐθνιστής, Hsch.
µ ἔθνος, εος, τό : (ϝέθνος, cf. Il.2.87, 7.115, al.):—number of people living together, company, body of men, ἑτάρων ἔ., ἔ. ἑταίρων, band of comrades, Il.3.32, 7.115, etc.; ἔθνος λαῶν host of men, 13.495; of particular tribes, Λυκίων μέγα ἔ. 12.330; Ἀχαιῶν ἔ. 17.552: pl., ἔθνεα πεζῶν 11.724, cf. 2.91; ἔ. νεκρῶν Od.10.526; of animals, ἔ. μελισσάων, ὀρνίθων, μυιάων, swarms, flocks, etc., Il.2.84, 459, 469; ἔθνη θηρῶν S.Ph.1147 (lyr.), Ant.344; ἔ. ἀνέρων, γυναικῶν, Pi.O.1.66, P.4.252; ἔ. βρότεον, θνατόν, Id.N.3.74, 11.42; ἔ. τόδε, of the Erinyes, A.Eu.366 (lyr.).
2. after Hom., nation, people, τὸ Μηδικὸν ἔ. (γένος being a subdivision of ἔθνος) Hdt.1.101; ἔ. ἠπειρογενές, μαχαιροφόρον, A.Pers.43, 56 (anap.), etc.; τῶν μηδισάντων ἐθνέων τῶν Ἑλληνικῶν Hdt.9.106.
b. later, τὰ ἔ. foreign, barbarous nations, opp. Ἕλληνες, Arist.Pol.1324b10; ἔ. νομάδων, of Bedawin, LW2203 (Syria.); at Athens, athletic clubs of non-Athenians, IG2.444, al.; in Lxx, non-Jews, Ps.2.1, al., cf. Act.Ap.7.45; Gentiles, τῶν ἐθνῶν τε καὶ Ἰουδαίων ib.14.5, etc.; used of Gentile Christians, Ep.Rom.15.27.
c. at Rome, = provinciae, App.BC2.13, Hdn.1.2.1, PStrassb.22.19 (iii a.d.), D.C.36.41, etc.: so in sg., province, ὁ τυραννήσας τοῦ ἔθνους D.Chr.43.11; ὁ ἡγούμενος τοῦ ἔθνους the governor of the province, POxy.1020.5 (iii a.d.)
3. class of men, caste, tribe, τὸ Θετταλῶν .. πενεστικὸν ἔ. Pl.Lg.776d; ἔθνος κηρυκικόν Id.Plt.290b; οἶσθά τι ἔ. ἠλιθιώτερον ῥαψῳδῶν; X.Smp.3.6; δημιουργικὸν ἔ. Pl.Grg.455b, cf. Arist.Ath.Fr.3; ἔ. Βραχμάνων D.S.17.102; τὰ ἱερὰ ἔ. the orders of priests, OGI90.17 (ii b.c.); trade-associations or guilds, ἔθνη καὶ ἐργαστήρια PPetr.3 p.67 (iii b.c.), PKöln260.3 (ii b.c.), al.; class in respect to rank or station, οὐ πρὸς τοῦτο βλέποντες .. ὅπως .. ἕν τι ἔ. ἔσται διαφερόντως εὔδαιμον Pl.R.420b, cf. 421c, D.21.131.
4. sex, θῆλυ, ἄρρεν ἔ., X.Oec.7.26.
5. part, member, Hp.Loc.Hom.1.
II. of a single person, a relation, Pi.N.5.43.

Are you aware that the LSJ -- where you could look all of this up -- is online?

Jeffrey

mountainman · 02-28-2009, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Ethnos is not in the text, but phylon is a synonym.

Ben's page has "και πολλους μεν Ιουδαιους,[4] πολλους δε και[5] του Ελληνικου "

Ελληνικου = Hellenic literally refers to Greek, but is translated at times as Gentiles. I think this was a common usage - "Greek" referred to the citizens of the Roman Empire, who were culturally Hellenistic and spoke Koine Greek.

Thanks Toto and others,

I would be interested to see how many times
the term ἔθνος = gentiles/nations (?)
and the term Ελληνικου = Hellenic
appear in the oldest greek new testaments.

As mentioned earlier the english translation
counts over 90 instances of "gentiles".

Is there a "greek NT search function" anywhere?
(For the general public)

Best wishes,

Pete

Jeffrey Gibson · 02-28-2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Ethnos is not in the text, but phylon is a synonym.

Ben's page has "και πολλους μεν Ιουδαιους,[4] πολλους δε και[5] του Ελληνικου "

Ελληνικου = Hellenic literally refers to Greek, but is translated at times as Gentiles. I think this was a common usage - "Greek" referred to the citizens of the Roman Empire, who were culturally Hellenistic and spoke Koine Greek.

Thanks Toto and others,

I would be interested to see how many times
the term ἔθνος = gentiles/nations (?)
and the term Ελληνικου = Hellenic
appear in the oldest greek new testaments.

Please note that strictly speaking ἔθνος means "nation", not "nations". It is singular, not plural.

Moreover, Ελληνικου, being Genitive singular, does not mean "Hellenic". It means "of the Hellenes" or "of the ones who spoke Greek".

Why is it that you don't know this, especially since you continually present yourself as one whose pronouncements on the meaning of the wording of ancient texts is to be taken as authoritative?

Jeffrey

Sheshbazzar · 02-28-2009, 08:20 AM

Apologies to mountanman, as it is obvious in post #51 at the top of the page, I'm the one that led him to using the singular rather than all of
the plural forms of ἔθνος "ethnos".
As he is admittedly not proficient in Greek, I did not think it necessary to introduce all of the possible variations on the root word.
The discussion was only to point out to him that one could not simply substitute "pagans" or "non-Christians" for the texts "gentiles" and "nations",
as he was attempting in his "experiment" in Post #36.
It was not intended to be a detailed Greek lesson, only a demonstration as to why his attempted substitutions would not fly.

It might be noted that in both of my Greek quotations in Post #45 the plural forms are evident, and are highlighted in red. ἔθνη and ἐθνῶν

Pete sometimes fumbles and bumbles, but he is studying, and he is learning in his own way.

Mountainman, might I suggest that you check up on how words are employed in the original texts, before attempting to reinterpret and revise them in your posts here?
The Blue Letter Bible is quite simple to use. and will give you both the Hebrew and Greek texts of every verse, and allow you to get the dictionary definition to every word, and all the synonyms, show you how many times it appears, and lists each verse it appears in.
This would help you from "spinning your wheels" and in more effectively proving your points, without getting bogged down in these needless digressions.

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02-27-2009, 02:53 PM	#54
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Ethnos is not in the text, but phylon is a synonym. Ben's page has "και πολλους μεν Ιουδαιους,[4] πολλους δε και[5] του Ελληνικου " Ελληνικου = Hellenic literally refers to Greek, but is translated at times as Gentiles. I think this was a common usage - "Greek" referred to the citizens of the Roman Empire, who were culturally Hellenistic and spoke Koine Greek. Paul contrasts Jews and Greeks, and I am sure that he was not confining "Greek" to people that lived in the successors to Greek city-states. This is pushing the limits of my Greek, so someone else may have a better take on it. But I don't see a problem. eta: don't be confused by the modern notions of "nation." This was well before the rise of the modern nation-state with its well defined notion of citizens based on geography and loyalty.

02-27-2009, 04:01 PM	#55
gentleexit Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: CA, USA Posts: 202	Information for the ignorant. Did Jews have a (Greek) word for "Greek speaking Jew" vs aramaic speaker/more traditional Jew? In other words, for diaspora Jew vs Palestinian etc? It seems like a natural distinction, given the tensions over the years between how Greek Judaism should be and most groups distinguish subgroups with labels. I suppose I'm getting at what Paul meant by Greeks/Gentiles?

02-28-2009, 08:20 AM	#60
Sheshbazzar Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: On the path of knowledge Posts: 8,889	Apologies to mountanman, as it is obvious in post #51 at the top of the page, I'm the one that led him to using the singular rather than all of the plural forms of ἔθνος "ethnos". As he is admittedly not proficient in Greek, I did not think it necessary to introduce all of the possible variations on the root word. The discussion was only to point out to him that one could not simply substitute "pagans" or "non-Christians" for the texts "gentiles" and "nations", as he was attempting in his "experiment" in Post #36. It was not intended to be a detailed Greek lesson, only a demonstration as to why his attempted substitutions would not fly. It might be noted that in both of my Greek quotations in Post #45 the plural forms are evident, and are highlighted in red. ἔθνη and ἐθνῶν Pete sometimes fumbles and bumbles, but he is studying, and he is learning in his own way. Mountainman, might I suggest that you check up on how words are employed in the original texts, before attempting to reinterpret and revise them in your posts here? The Blue Letter Bible is quite simple to use. and will give you both the Hebrew and Greek texts of every verse, and allow you to get the dictionary definition to every word, and all the synonyms, show you how many times it appears, and lists each verse it appears in. This would help you from "spinning your wheels" and in more effectively proving your points, without getting bogged down in these needless digressions.

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