Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Archer · 02-12-2008, 03:07 PM

Now this makes more sense in relation to our reality:

Quote:

The traditional history of Christianity is hopelessly inadequate to the facts. From our research into ancient spirituality it has become obvious that we must fundamentally revise our understanding of Christian origins in the most shocking of ways. Our conclusion, supported by a considerable body of evidence in our book, The Jesus Mysteries, is that Christianity was not a new revelation. It was a continuation of Paganism by another name. The gospel story of Jesus is not the biography of an historical Messiah. It is a Jewish reworking of ancient Pagan myths of the dying and resurrecting Godman Osiris-Dionysus, which had been popular for centuries throughout the ancient Mediterranean.

The stories told about Osiris-Dionysus will no doubt sound familiar. He is the Son of God who is born to a virgin on the 25th of December before three shepherds. He is a prophet who offers his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism. He is a wonderworker who raises the dead and miraculously turns water into wine at a marriage ceremony. He is God incarnate who dies at Easter, sometimes through crucifixion, but who resurrects on the third day. He is a savior who offers his followers redemption through partaking in a meal of bread and wine, symbolic of his body and blood. The Jesus story is a synthesis of the Jewish myth of the Messiah Joshua (in Greek Jesus) with these Pagan myths of the dying and resurrecting Godman.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Whilst our ideas clearly rewrite history, we do not see ourselves as undermining Christianity. On the contrary we are suggesting that Christianity is in fact richer than we previously imagined. According to the original Gnostic Christians, the Jesus story is a perennial myth with the power to impart the mystical experience of Gnosis, which can transform each one of us into a Christ, not merely a history of events that happened to someone else two thousand years ago.

The above is the first two paragraphs and last paragraph of the article by Freke and Gandy:
From here:
http://www.bibleinterp.com/commentary/gandy_011701.htm

GakuseiDon · 02-12-2008, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer

Whilst our ideas clearly rewrite history, we do not see ourselves as undermining Christianity. On the contrary we are suggesting that Christianity is in fact richer than we previously imagined. According to the original Gnostic Christians, the Jesus story is a perennial myth with the power to impart the mystical experience of Gnosis, which can transform each one of us into a Christ, not merely a history of events that happened to someone else two thousand years ago.

Let's assume all that is true. What is the next step, in your opinion? What kind of Christianity are you proposing, with regard to services, worship, treatment of the OT and the NT, etc? Are the sayings given by the Jesus character inspired or worth following, or are they curiosities only?

(ETA) OK, you seem to have copied or paraphrased from Freke & Gandy's "Jesus Mysteries". So I'm not sure whether the above is your own opinion or not. Can you confirm please?

Archer · 02-12-2008, 03:47 PM

Ok even though Jesus probably never existed,we can still take the teachings and apply them to our every day lives.No rocket science here,just simple actions like do unto others as you would want done to yourself,peace over war,love over hate,giving over taking etc.About services and worship,what is there to worship? the teachings? Unfortanetly the very thing the writers were trying to convey backfired and ended up causing just the opposite things like war,deaths,seperation of beliefs in men,arguing,debating etc.

Toto · 02-12-2008, 05:23 PM

There is a lot more to Jesus' teaching than the Golden Rule. It's not clear how you would chose among them, or how you would enforce them, or how they are compatible with a modern nation state that depends on a market economy and military defense.

Freke and Gandy are neo-gnostics, and the religious ideas that they advocate are quite different from what you list.

Did you post this in the right forum?

Toto · 02-12-2008, 05:30 PM

Archer: please check your Private Messages and respond.

GakuseiDon · 02-12-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer

Ok even though Jesus probably never existed,we can still take the teachings and apply them to our every day lives.No rocket science here,just simple actions like do unto others as you would want done to yourself,peace over war,love over hate,giving over taking etc.About services and worship,what is there to worship? the teachings? Unfortanetly the very thing the writers were trying to convey backfired and ended up causing just the opposite things like war,deaths,seperation of beliefs in men,arguing,debating etc.

As Toto asked, how would you choose between the various teachings in the Bible, then? Which are the 'right' ones and which are the 'wrong' ones? And why are the wrong ones wrong?

Roger Pearse · 02-13-2008, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer

The stories told about Osiris-Dionysus will no doubt sound familiar. He is the Son of God who is born to a virgin on the 25th of December before three shepherds. He is a prophet who offers his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism. He is a wonderworker who raises the dead and miraculously turns water into wine at a marriage ceremony. He is God incarnate who dies at Easter, sometimes through crucifixion, but who resurrects on the third day. He is a savior who offers his followers redemption through partaking in a meal of bread and wine, symbolic of his body and blood.

I would like to see precisely which ancient texts describe this curious 'deity', and which of them say this, and whether this is a fair presentation (without omission, selection or misrepresentation) of how they describe him.

Otherwise this sounds like nonsense.

Quote:

Whilst our ideas clearly rewrite history, we do not see ourselves as undermining Christianity.

Does anyone believe them?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-12-2008, 03:47 PM	#3
Archer Banned Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Midwest Posts: 130	Ok even though Jesus probably never existed,we can still take the teachings and apply them to our every day lives.No rocket science here,just simple actions like do unto others as you would want done to yourself,peace over war,love over hate,giving over taking etc.About services and worship,what is there to worship? the teachings? Unfortanetly the very thing the writers were trying to convey backfired and ended up causing just the opposite things like war,deaths,seperation of beliefs in men,arguing,debating etc.

02-12-2008, 05:23 PM	#4
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	There is a lot more to Jesus' teaching than the Golden Rule. It's not clear how you would chose among them, or how you would enforce them, or how they are compatible with a modern nation state that depends on a market economy and military defense. Freke and Gandy are neo-gnostics, and the religious ideas that they advocate are quite different from what you list. Did you post this in the right forum?

02-12-2008, 05:30 PM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Archer: please check your Private Messages and respond.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.