Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Ender Wiggin 26 · 05-06-2005, 07:18 PM

After my conversion to atheism, I remember a thought I had as a Christian, what would this world be like if Christians were in charge? I'm talking about today's 21st Century American fast-food Christianity. (For a definition of this term, see my first thread )

What if the fundies ruled all of the world's governments? In fact, one single Christian government that governed over every single human being on earth...

So here's a neat little project, spend a bit of time imagining this world, and place yourself in it. What do you see?

The inspiration of this thread is of course, inspired by Orwell's 1984

-Ender

Ojuice5001 · 05-06-2005, 07:21 PM

Three words: worldwide civil war.

Ender Wiggin 26 · 05-06-2005, 07:38 PM

I just thought of the movie "Demolition Man"

Man.... I would be fined so much for swearing....

Deacon Doubtmonger · 05-06-2005, 10:49 PM

Since church and state are no longer separate, there's no more need for preachers, divinity school, apologetics and the like. Why bother exhorting, arguing and persuading when you can arrest, fine, imprison, torture and execute?

As to 1984, the parallels with the bible are certainly there:

Quote:

2 Corinthians 10:5, 6

We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.

Orwell

"We are not content with negative obedience, nor even with the most abject submission. When finally you surrender to us, it must be of your own free will. We do not destroy the heretic because he resists us; so long as he resists us we never destroy him. We convert him, we capture his inner mind, we reshape him. We burn all evil and all illusion out of him; we bring him over to our side, not in appearance, but genuinely, heart and soul. We make him one of ourselves before we kill him. It is intolerable to us that an erroneous thought should exist anywhere in the world, however secret and powerless it may be."

Quote:

Deuteronomy 6:5

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Orwell

"Tell me, Winston -- and remember, no lies; you know that I am always able to detect a lie -- tell me, what are your true feelings toward Big Brother?"

"I hate him"

"You hate him. Good. Then the time has come for you to take the last step. You must love Big Brother. It is not enough to obey him; you must love him."

Quote:

Mark 11:23

For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Orwell

Winston worked it out. "If he thinks he floats off the floor, and if I simultaneously think I see him do it, then the thing happens."

Quote:

Matthew 23:12

For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Galatians 2:20

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.

Orwell

"The first thing you must realize is that power is collective. The individual only has power in so far as he ceases to be an individual. Alone -- free -- the human being is always defeated. It must be so, because every human being is doomed to die, which is the greatest of all failures. But if he can make complete, utter submission, if he can escape from his identity, if he can merge himself in the Party so that he is the Party, then he is all-powerful and immortal."

Quote:

Proverbs 3:5-7

Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil.

Orwell

He had no difficulty in disposing of the fallacy, and he was in no danger of succumbing to it. he realized, nevertheless, that it ought never to have occurred to him. The mind should develop a blind spot whenever a dangerous thought presented itself. The process should be automatic, instinctive. Crimestop, they called it in Newspeak.

Ojuice5001 · 05-06-2005, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon Doubtmonger

Since church and state are no longer separate, there's no more need for preachers, divinity school, apologetics and the like. Why bother exhorting, arguing and persuading when you can arrest, fine, imprison, torture and execute?

Of course there is. The days when a state could be run by force alone ended around the times when Sparta was conquering Greece. There's no way a state of the size we have today, let alone one that encompasses the whole world, could function without sophisticated techniques for making sure that most people think of the government as a legitimate enterprise that they personally derive some benefit from. This means keeping the ministers and apologists around; they wouldn't do exactly the same things, but they'd still be there.

I said that there would be civil wars before long; do you realize how much quicker that would happen if someone had the bright idea that preachers are no longer necessary?

Deacon Doubtmonger · 05-06-2005, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojuice5001

The days when a state could be run by force alone ended around the times when Sparta was conquering Greece. There's no way a state of the size we have today, let alone one that encompasses the whole world ...

Sorry. Since the OP mentioned Orwell, I was thinking of Orwell's world: three superstates ruled entirely by force, with their citizens living in perpetual fear of their governments, and only the high Party officials deriving benefits therefrom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ojuice5001

... could function without sophisticated techniques for making sure that most people think of the government as a legitimate enterprise that they personally derive some benefit from.

I can see your point, and you have no less than Aldous Huxley in support of it. From his foreword to the 1946 edition of Brave New World:

Quote:

There is, of course, no reason why the new totalitarianisms should resemble the old. Governments by clubs and firing squads, by artificial famine, mass imprisonment and mass deportation, is not merely inhumane (nobody cares much about that nowadays); it is demonstrably inefficient - and in an age of advanced technology, inefficiency is the sin against the Holy Ghost. A really efficient totalitarian state would be one in which the all-powerful executive of political bosses and their army of managers control a population of slaves who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude. To make them love it is the task assigned, in present-day totalitarian states, to ministries of propaganda, newspaper editors and schoolteachers.

And presumably preachers and apologists as well.

05-06-2005, 07:18 PM	#1
Ender Wiggin 26 Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 35	What Would Jesus-World Do? After my conversion to atheism, I remember a thought I had as a Christian, what would this world be like if Christians were in charge? I'm talking about today's 21st Century American fast-food Christianity. (For a definition of this term, see my first thread ) What if the fundies ruled all of the world's governments? In fact, one single Christian government that governed over every single human being on earth... So here's a neat little project, spend a bit of time imagining this world, and place yourself in it. What do you see? The inspiration of this thread is of course, inspired by Orwell's 1984 -Ender

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05-06-2005, 07:21 PM	#2
Ojuice5001 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: A city in Florida that I love Posts: 3,416	Three words: worldwide civil war.

05-06-2005, 07:38 PM	#3
Ender Wiggin 26 Junior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 35	I just thought of the movie "Demolition Man" Man.... I would be fined so much for swearing....

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