Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hinduwoman · 12-14-2004, 08:26 PM

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...p?newsid=16378

Quote:

Whether or not you are religious and believe in God is down to your genes, says Dean Hamer, National Cancer Institute's Gene Structure Regulation Unit, USA. He reckons Jesus, Mohammed (the prophet) and Buddha probably carried the ‘God Gene' in them. Church representatives have criticised Dean Hamer's findings.

Church representatives say Hamer fails to understand exactly what faith is and what it entails.

…

Hamer studied 2,000 DNA samples. He interviewed 2,000 people extensively (226 questions in each interview). The questions, among other things, looked at how spiritual a person is and what their level of faith in God is.

He found that the VMAT2 Gene was significantly more common among people who believed in a higher spiritual being. According to his research, whether or not your upbringing is religious has no bearing on how religious you turn out to be - but the presence of the VMAT2 Gene version does.

Hamer believes Buddha, Mohammed and Jesus probably had the version of the VMAT2 Gene. He said they all experienced a series of mystical experiences or alterations in consciousness.

Hamer said "This means that the tendency to be spiritual is part of genetic make-up. This is not a thing that is strictly handed down from parents to children. It could skip a generation - it's like intelligence."

A spokesman for the Church of Scotland, Donald Bruce, said Hamer's declarations were nothing more than a publicity stunt as his book is launched. He said God makes himself available to all equally and there is no such thing as a God Gene.

This can explain why children brought up in religious households become atheists and others don’t.
Alternatively it also explains why people keep on believing contrary to facts.

Ierrellus · 12-16-2004, 11:44 AM

The problem with giving genetic explanations for the ways in which people think has much to do with the popular fear that thought, being somehow more sacred to many than its material precursors, cannot be considered deterministic and still allow "free will". Then there is the age-old contoversy over which has the most influence on thought--nature or nurture.

IMHO, the fear and the controversy yield no valid explanations as to why we think what we think. There have been markers on genes that reveal everything from propensity to obesity to homosexuality. To me, genetic dispositions show possibilites that are realized when exposed to environmental
identities. A gene for a need to worship may actually exist.

All I know of this is from my own personal experience. I am the child of five or more generations of fundamentalist preachers. I have never completely shed fundamentalism from my thinking; but I have found it easier to neglect impulses toward my inherited sense of judgmentalism when I am around people who are not judgmental. Maybe environment becomes heredity. One can hope so.

atheist · 12-16-2004, 12:28 PM

If there really does exist a gene for god/spirituality/etc., I suspect that how that gene expresses itself (and how strongly) is subject to many different variables. I'm reminded of reading Richard Dawkins' take on the 'gay gene'. Basically, it's just not as simple as "Gay gene? BAM, you're gay!". Similarly, a god gene wouldn't neccessarily make someone into a raving fundie.

Personally, I have reason to suspect that I may be affected (afflicted?

) by by something like a god gene. 'Professionals' like to tell me that I should nurture my 'spirituality'; I really wonder how shocked, or even disappointed, they might be when I inform them I'm an atheist - one that leans toward strong atheism. However, to be fair, I apparently have a personality that's often correlated with strong spirituality, and before my deconversion, I zealously searched for 'god'. Again, this probably wasn't a result of just one gene expressing itself.

These days, I've channelled my tendencies to spirituality into something still not quite tangible, but certainly real: Love. So, maybe it's really a 'love gene', and most everybody else just mucks it up.

Alter · 12-16-2004, 01:10 PM

I don't doubt that there's a "god gene", although that has nothign whatsoever to do with god.

If you were spiritual, you were more likely to follow the church unfailingly. If you did that, you were less likely to be branded a heretic and more likely to fit in with society, not questioning the dictates of the church or society. Thus, there is an evolutionary advantage to sprituality.

If you were TOO spiritual, it usually hurt, you could end up being a nun, a priest, or an outcast prone to "visions". But then again, you could've become a Koresh. If he didn't immolate himself and his followers, think of how genetically successful he would've been, with dozens of children.

So we all carry that spirituality gene in one amount or another. I'd just prefer to use mine to stare in wonder at the amazing set of processes that made our world, and the beauty thereof, instead of ascribing it to some supernatural crap.

babelfish · 12-16-2004, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hinduwoman

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...p?newsid=16378

This can explain why children brought up in religious households become atheists and others don’t.
Alternatively it also explains why people keep on believing contrary to facts.

Maybe it's not so much a "god-gene" as a "gullibility-gene."

Chris Weimer · 12-16-2004, 04:44 PM

I have the God-gene (I'm pretty sure) and I'm atheist. You can just feel spiritual, like you're supposed to believe in some sort of religion or something. it's a constant battle. That's why I turned to alcoholism! It's my cure to religion.

Stacey Melissa · 12-17-2004, 02:08 AM

If there is a God gene, that's something I would consider fair game for manipulation in any children I might have, assuming genetic modification in humans becomes legal by that time. I would want to make sure my children don't have that particular problem.

premjan · 12-18-2004, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacey Melissa

If there is a God gene, that's something I would consider fair game for manipulation in any children I might have, assuming genetic modification in humans becomes legal by that time. I would want to make sure my children don't have that particular problem.

It might have survival value.

Stacey Melissa · 12-18-2004, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

It might have survival value.

That's doubtful.

premjan · 12-18-2004, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacey Melissa

That's doubtful.

it probably increases one's tolerance of pain: putting a person into the trance state.

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12-16-2004, 11:44 AM	#2
Ierrellus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 2,082	The problem with giving genetic explanations for the ways in which people think has much to do with the popular fear that thought, being somehow more sacred to many than its material precursors, cannot be considered deterministic and still allow "free will". Then there is the age-old contoversy over which has the most influence on thought--nature or nurture. IMHO, the fear and the controversy yield no valid explanations as to why we think what we think. There have been markers on genes that reveal everything from propensity to obesity to homosexuality. To me, genetic dispositions show possibilites that are realized when exposed to environmental identities. A gene for a need to worship may actually exist. All I know of this is from my own personal experience. I am the child of five or more generations of fundamentalist preachers. I have never completely shed fundamentalism from my thinking; but I have found it easier to neglect impulses toward my inherited sense of judgmentalism when I am around people who are not judgmental. Maybe environment becomes heredity. One can hope so.

12-16-2004, 12:28 PM	#3
atheist Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 371	If there really does exist a gene for god/spirituality/etc., I suspect that how that gene expresses itself (and how strongly) is subject to many different variables. I'm reminded of reading Richard Dawkins' take on the 'gay gene'. Basically, it's just not as simple as "Gay gene? BAM, you're gay!". Similarly, a god gene wouldn't neccessarily make someone into a raving fundie. Personally, I have reason to suspect that I may be affected (afflicted? ) by by something like a god gene. 'Professionals' like to tell me that I should nurture my 'spirituality'; I really wonder how shocked, or even disappointed, they might be when I inform them I'm an atheist - one that leans toward strong atheism. However, to be fair, I apparently have a personality that's often correlated with strong spirituality, and before my deconversion, I zealously searched for 'god'. Again, this probably wasn't a result of just one gene expressing itself. These days, I've channelled my tendencies to spirituality into something still not quite tangible, but certainly real: Love. So, maybe it's really a 'love gene', and most everybody else just mucks it up.

12-16-2004, 01:10 PM	#4
Alter Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Midwest Posts: 2,210	I don't doubt that there's a "god gene", although that has nothign whatsoever to do with god. If you were spiritual, you were more likely to follow the church unfailingly. If you did that, you were less likely to be branded a heretic and more likely to fit in with society, not questioning the dictates of the church or society. Thus, there is an evolutionary advantage to sprituality. If you were TOO spiritual, it usually hurt, you could end up being a nun, a priest, or an outcast prone to "visions". But then again, you could've become a Koresh. If he didn't immolate himself and his followers, think of how genetically successful he would've been, with dozens of children. So we all carry that spirituality gene in one amount or another. I'd just prefer to use mine to stare in wonder at the amazing set of processes that made our world, and the beauty thereof, instead of ascribing it to some supernatural crap.

12-16-2004, 04:44 PM	#6
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	I have the God-gene (I'm pretty sure) and I'm atheist. You can just feel spiritual, like you're supposed to believe in some sort of religion or something. it's a constant battle. That's why I turned to alcoholism! It's my cure to religion.

12-17-2004, 02:08 AM	#7
Stacey Melissa Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Wichita, Kansas, USA Posts: 8,650	If there is a God gene, that's something I would consider fair game for manipulation in any children I might have, assuming genetic modification in humans becomes legal by that time. I would want to make sure my children don't have that particular problem.

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