Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Cege · 10-16-2007, 01:34 PM

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What was once taken for granted by all has now been discarded by some and seriously revised by others.

and WHO this statement is attributed to (footnote 54) ... that's right ... Richard Friedman, the book Dean gets his information from. Maybe Dean could provide the context from Friedman's book.

The statement isn't in quotes, so it doesn't look like it's attributed as a quote from Friedman.

The statement would be Meyers', wouldn't it?

VoxRat · 10-16-2007, 01:39 PM

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Originally Posted by afdave

The only way Wellhausen was able to sell his goods so successfully was because academia had been convinced of his ERRONEOUS PRESUPPOSITIONS involving what he supposed to be external evidence, which, as I have shown, was later discredited by the findings of archaeology.

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No, Dave. You have shown no such thing. As appears usual for you, you have gone straight from "I will show..." to "As I have shown..." without actually doing the oh-so-important showing bit that is supposed to come in the middle.

Indeed. This is a habit I find really, really annoying.

If I were emperor of the forum, I would have explicit rules against it. Something like "if you claim you've shown something, the considerate thing to do would be provide a link. If challenged on such a claim, either supply the link that could reasonably be seen to back it up, or explicitly retract the claim. Failure to do so will be counted as an infraction."

Something like that.

If I were emperor of the forum.

Toto · 10-16-2007, 01:46 PM

The statement is a quote from Meyers, with a footnote to Friedman's Bible with Sources Revealed (or via: amazon.co.uk), p 1-31.

-Jay- · 10-16-2007, 02:39 PM

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Originally Posted by Toto

The statement is a quote from Meyers, with a footnote to Friedman's Bible with Sources Revealed (or via: amazon.co.uk), p 1-31.

Yeah, that didn't read right for Friedman. He spends a lot of the intro to BSR explaining basically the same consilience issues Dean presented here.

More of that great creationist scholarship on display.

regards,

NinJay

ck1 · 10-16-2007, 04:04 PM

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Originally Posted by VoxRat

Quote:

Originally Posted by afdave

The only way Wellhausen was able to sell his goods so successfully was because academia had been convinced of his ERRONEOUS PRESUPPOSITIONS involving what he supposed to be external evidence, which, as I have shown, was later discredited by the findings of archaeology.

Quote:

No, Dave. You have shown no such thing. As appears usual for you, you have gone straight from "I will show..." to "As I have shown..." without actually doing the oh-so-important showing bit that is supposed to come in the middle.

Indeed. This is a habit I find really, really annoying.

If I were emperor of the forum, I would have explicit rules against it. Something like "if you claim you've shown something, the considerate thing to do would be provide a link. If challenged on such a claim, either supply the link that could reasonably be seen to back it up, or explicitly retract the claim. Failure to do so will be counted as an infraction."

Something like that.

If I were emperor of the forum.

I am no biblical scholar - I took one old testament class in college many moons ago.

But Dave, could you explain what archeological evidence specifically discredits the DH?

Thanks,

Sapho · 10-16-2007, 05:13 PM

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Originally Posted by Cege

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Originally Posted by afdave
What happened to the ark of the covenant? What happened to other valuable artifacts of antiquity? Just because we don't have them doesn't mean they never existed.

Since we don't have them, we can't prove that they ever existed.

Dont know if anyone else mentioned this as Ive only just now noticed this thread, but the Ethiopian church claims to have the Ark of the Covenant. Aparently Solomon gave it to the Queen of Sheba, she being a good shag and all that

Its guarded by a priest who's whole life is dedicated to the task. Unfortunatly they wont let you look at it, because to do so would kill you with it's holy brilliance, they do have copies though, but your not really allowed to see these either, as these might singe you a bit, being still somewhat holy.

does that help:wave:

Cege · 10-16-2007, 05:50 PM

Sapho, it doesn't help much for me. Since the Ethopians won't allow the ark to be viewed and/or verified, there is still no proof that it ever existed as described in the bible or that it exists in any form today inside the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in Axum, Ethiopia.

-Jay- · 10-16-2007, 06:33 PM

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Originally Posted by Cege

Sapho, it doesn't help much for me. Since the Ethopians won't allow the ark to be viewed and/or verified, there is still no proof that it ever existed as described in the bible or that it exists in any form today inside the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in Axum, Ethiopia.

This is one of those "so what?" issues. If they've got a box, all it really proves on its face is that they have a box of indeterminate provenance. On second thought, I'm not even sure it rises to the level of a "so what?". I have numerous boxes of indeterminate provenance in my garage at the moment...

Didn't Ron Wyatt claim to have seen this thing in Axum at some point?

regards,

NinJay

Cege · 10-16-2007, 06:37 PM

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Didn't Ron Wyatt claim to have seen this thing in Axum at some point?

I don't know, but if Wyatt claimed it I'm inclined to disbelieve it.

-Jay- · 10-16-2007, 07:04 PM

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Originally Posted by Cege

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Didn't Ron Wyatt claim to have seen this thing in Axum at some point?

I don't know, but if Wyatt claimed it I'm inclined to disbelieve it.

What part of Kentucky are you in, Cege? I'm in L'ville myself.

regards,

NinJay

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10-16-2007, 01:46 PM	#903
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	The statement is a quote from Meyers, with a footnote to Friedman's Bible with Sources Revealed (or via: amazon.co.uk), p 1-31.

10-16-2007, 05:50 PM	#907
Cege Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: 36078 Posts: 849	Sapho, it doesn't help much for me. Since the Ethopians won't allow the ark to be viewed and/or verified, there is still no proof that it ever existed as described in the bible or that it exists in any form today inside the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in Axum, Ethiopia.

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