Freethought & Rationalism Archive

fromdownunder · 05-09-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queen of Swords

I remember watching the Red Sea scene in The Ten Commandments and thinking, "No way. Ramses isn't actually going to order his army to chase them out into the sea. Anyone can tell it's a trap." The story just didn't ring true.

Also, since all the Egyptian animals had already died once or twice during the ten plagues where did he find the horses to pull the chariots in the first place?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exodus 9 NIV

5 The LORD set a time and said, "Tomorrow the LORD will do this in the land." 6 And the next day the LORD did it: All the livestock of the Egyptians died, but not one animal belonging to the Israelites died.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exodus 9 NIV

23 When Moses stretched out his staff toward the sky, the LORD sent thunder and hail, and lightning flashed down to the ground. So the LORD rained hail on the land of Egypt; 24 hail fell and lightning flashed back and forth. It was the worst storm in all the land of Egypt since it had become a nation. 25 Throughout Egypt hail struck everything in the fields—both men and animals; it beat down everything growing in the fields and stripped every tree. 26 The only place it did not hail was the land of Goshen, where the Israelites were. .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exodus 12 NIV

29 At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well..

Another point, if all the livestock died in Exodus 9:6, precicely what did the subsequent two plagues kill?

Norm

Nuwanda · 05-09-2006, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacey Melissa

It could easily be stuff that was pushed off or fell from a barge. Wheels and spindles are used for a lot of different stuff besides chariots.

Hell, maybe those things are chariot wheels... that rolled off a barge.

Were there barges in ancient times? Coral like the ones found at the site require thousands of years to form.

Eldarion Lathria · 05-09-2006, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuwanda

I agree with you on Ron Wyatt claiming to have found both Arks. Neither of which are verified so I believe they should be disgarded. However, the Red Sea crossing evidence has been verified by other sources, so in my estimation it is worthy of extensive debate.

I don't believe that the Egyptian or Saudi governments, Islamic ruled nations, have anything to gain from extensive investigations. If I was interested in mantaining an Islamic nation I would not grant the opposing team (Jews and Christians) points on my home court. Would you?

Since the story of the Exodus is told, in abbreviated form, in the Qu'ran, I would say yes. The evidence confirms that the Glorious Qu'ran is the word of god.

Eldarion Lathria

fromdownunder · 05-09-2006, 06:50 PM

Sorry, Nuwanda, Moses is important to Islam

http://i-cias.com/e.o/moses.htm

Quote:

Moses is important to Islam as being one of Muhammad's forerunners, bringing the same message to humans as Muhammad would be doing 2000 years later. Hence, Muslims consider Moses as a confirmation of the authenticity of the revelations received by and transmitted from Muhammad. But theologically, Moses is not important, as there is no specific learning ascribed to him alone.

Norm

Nuwanda · 05-09-2006, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not-For-Prophet

Something I would accept as proof? Your alleged god could appear, announce that all the amputees in the world were now going to grow their limbs back, and then make it happen. Or everyone who was paralyzed would suddenly regain the use of their bodies. Not a single person would die for a year. Every blind person would regain their sight. Something clear and unambiguous like that.

Chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea? There must be a least a half-dozen more plausible ways they got there, if that is even what they are.

I desire to find proof to validate the Biblical record just as much as you desire to maintain your position as an atheist. I'm willing to give the findings a proper investigation, aren't you? If it proves to be nothing you lose nothing and I'm back to just taking the story by faith. If it proves to weigh heavily on the side of proof for the Red Sea Exodus crossing, will you endanger your presuppositions of the Biblical record and accept the possiblility of Biblical truth, or will you make my point - "what proof will non-believers believe." Answer: not much.

Stacey Melissa · 05-09-2006, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuwanda

Were there barges in ancient times? Coral like the ones found at the site require thousands of years to form.

I'm sure ancients were smart enough to figure out how to build big rafts on which to float stuff across medium-sized bodies of water. It's not that complicated.

Nuwanda · 05-09-2006, 07:02 PM

Forgive me for the multiple posts of the same post. My computer froze and I kept hitting the submit button.

fromdownunder · 05-09-2006, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuwanda

Forgive me for the multiple posts of the same post. My computer froze and I kept hitting the submit button.

Actually, I think you will find it's a server problem, not your machine.

Norm

Stacey Melissa · 05-09-2006, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuwanda

I desire to find proof to validate the Biblical record just as much as you desire to maintain your position as an atheist. I'm willing to give the findings a proper investigation, aren't you? If it proves to be nothing you lose nothing and I'm back to just taking the story by faith. If it proves to weigh heavily on the side of proof for the Red Sea Exodus crossing, will you endanger your presuppositions of the Biblical record and accept the possiblility of Biblical truth, or will you make my point - "what proof will non-believers believe." Answer: not much.

So you get to keep your belief either way, but atheists have to change beliefs if it turns out those are really Egyptian chariot wheels from the Exodus? Gee, how equitable.

Nuwanda · 05-09-2006, 07:08 PM

Along with the Red Sea crossing findings, there is an overarching question in this thread. Is there any evidence for belief in God, or reliability of the Biblical record that any atheist or non-believer in this board will concede to?

05-09-2006, 07:08 PM	#20
Nuwanda Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Phoenix Posts: 412	Extra question Along with the Red Sea crossing findings, there is an overarching question in this thread. Is there any evidence for belief in God, or reliability of the Biblical record that any atheist or non-believer in this board will concede to?

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05-09-2006, 07:02 PM	#17
Nuwanda Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Phoenix Posts: 412	Forgive me for the multiple posts of the same post. My computer froze and I kept hitting the submit button.

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