Toto

Please don't escalate the overblown charges here. Zwaarddijk asked if there were some sort of weird racism in trying to make the Pygmies "caucasian." Most modern scholars either state outright or come close to contending that race is not a coherent concept.

No she doesn't. She repeats uncritically tall tales from research subjects, told to a gullible European traveler. We've been through this before.

Don't be silly. This is the 21st century. What about Paula Fredriksen, Karen King, Elaine Pagels, Karen Armstrong, April DeConick - to name the most widely discussed.

How about this list of the top 5 female Biblical scholars? And this? This group for SBL women scholars?

And if you expand the field to classics, or Greco-Roman civilization, there are many more women.

Dave31- please stop recycling the same grievances. No one is impressed. Just accept that life is not fair, and scholars are not always polite.

Zwaarddijk

I have further debunked some of Freethinkaluva's and Robert Tulip's defences of some of her more out-there claims in a two-part post to the blog. It is challenging to write in a manner that gets across to them, as they seem to think that Acharya's books have to be understood in light of things not mentioned anywhere in the book and even in ways directly contradictory to the surface meaning (the p'shat if we are to use Rabbinic terminology), both advocating that we ignore the context and the words and the meaning of the words to make her books seem immaculate.

The fact that they are willing to go this far not to have to face the fact that she is advocating mistaken theses doesn't really tell us anything new about them, though, by now.

Context, reading and comprehension, pt 1, and Context, Reading and Comprehension: Applying Gricean Maxims to The Christ Conspiracy

Dave31

Bullshit, he did NOT 'just ask a question' he posted some crap and implied she was racist - how pathetic can you possibly be? Zwaarddijk's trash is what is overblown here. This is a smear and that is a fact:

She said no such thing. It's nothing more than another malicious smear easily spotted when one actually checks the book, which nobody at the Rational Skepticism forum ever did either. Nothing there was accurate - if that's all one had to go on they would definitely be misled. There is absolutely no excuse for you to allow this <edit>, Seirios/Miekko/Zwaarddijk, or whoever he is, free-reign to continue smearing, libeling and spreading malicious falsehoods about Acharya here. <edit> I've already given you the quote:

You had absolutely no idea what the hell you were talking about then either. She certainly explains why the Pygmies are of interest and you are now also spreading pathetic falsehoods.

<edit, inflammatory personal comments>

You missed my point, obviously, all I said was:

"It takes an enormous amount of courage for a female to even try to enter this field of study let alone write books about it."

It's as if you've already decided to play Mr. Contrarian before you even understand the points being made.

<further edit for inflammatory language, comments on moderation, etc.>

Toto

The quote you gave does not charge Acharya S with being a racist. If you think it does, you need to read more carefully.

I have left in most of your over the top emotional breakdown. The readers can decide for themselves.





OK - please give an example of a pathetic falsehood. :huh:

I really have tried to be fair to Acharya S.

Then what was your point? Are all of these female scholars courageous? Are men who enter the field equally courageous, or are they cowards?

If Acharya S can't even respond to criticism without claiming some sort of personal bias, how is she going to function in the world of scholarship, where this sort of combat is routine?

If you think that a post is a violation of the rules, report it. Or explain exactly why it is wrong.

outhouse

A female is one of my favorites and she isnt even a scholar.

She doesnt attrract as much negative attention either, since her claims follow modern scholarships pretty closely. Finklestien and Dever.


Karen Armstrong has a wealth of information in the progression of mythology, and is highly respected.


Yes you have. I havnt noticed a bias from you.

spin

Below is the bibliography for the Acharya S book The Christ Conspiracy. I've annotated some of the works. Those in green are either antiquated and totally out of date in their field or simply off the wall speculative material of the von Danniken genre. These are all what one would expect from a New Age bookstore. Works by scholars in a relevant field are in blue, though the works are rarely scholarly works, ie they are mainly popular works by scholars, mostly also New Age bookstore fair. Then there are freethought ax work, popular works, including tertiary works such as an encyclopedia and a dictionary. There are almost no scholarly works, no specialist scholarly works in the fields of Egyptology, Assyriology, linguistics, anthropology or mythology. Many of the works can also be found on the Essene Christianity site, a site that would by its nature elicit derision. Yet this bibliography is the basis on which The Christ Conspiracy is founded, a book which is championed on the court of miracles website, FreethoughtNation, from which escapees come here to post defensive nonsense.

[HR=1]100%[/HR]

Bibliography
Aarons, Mark and Loftus, John, Unholy Trinity, St. Martin’s, 1991
Akerley, Ben, The X-Rated Bible, American Atheists, 1989
Allegro, John, The Dead Sea Scrolls and the Christian Myth, Prometheus, 1992
Allegro, John, The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross, Doubleday, 1970
* Allegro's whacky stuff
Anderson, Karl, Astrology of the Old Testament, Health Research, 1970
Atlantis Rising, http://atlantisrising.com/
* [Dead link], sounds like nutter nonsense
Baigent and Leigh, The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception, Simon & Schuster, 1991
* Journalistic tripe
Barnstone, Willis, ed., The Other Bible, Harper, 1984
ben Yehoshua, Hayyim, The Myth of the Historical Jesus, www.inlink.com/~rife/jesus
Berlitz, Charles, Atlantis: The Eighth Continent, Fawcett, 1985
* Nutter nonsense
Bernard, Raymond, PhD, Apollonius the Nazarene, Health Research, 1956
Biedermann, Hans, Dictionary of Symbolism, Facts on File, 1992
Blavatsky, Helena, Isis Unveiled, Theosophical University Press, 1988
Blavatsky, Helena, The Secret Doctrine, Theosophical University Press, 1988
* 1877 & 1888
Book of Jasher, The, J.H. Parry Publishers, 1887
Book of Enoch, The, Artisan Sales, 1980
Bowerstock, GW, Fiction as History: Nero to Julian, University of California, 1994
Bramley, William, The Gods of Eden, Dahlin Family Press, 1990.
Campbell, Joseph, Creative Mythology: The Masks of God, Penguin, 1976
Campbell, Joseph, The Hero with a Thousand Faces, Princeton University Press, 1968
Carpenter, Edward, Pagan and Christian Creeds, Health Research, 1975
* 1920 (writer on sexuality and society)
Charlesworth, James, Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls, Doubleday, 1995
Childress, David Hatcher, Lost Cities series, Adventures Unlimited
* Nutter nonsense
Churchward, Albert, The Origin and Evolution of Religion
* 1924
Churchward, Col. James, The Children of Mu, BE Books, 1988
Churchward, Col. James, The Lost Continent of Mu, BE Books, 1991
* Nutter nonsense, both 1931
Doane, T.W., Bible Myths and Their Parallels in Other Religions, Health Research, 1985
Doherty, Earl, The Jesus Puzzle: Was There No Historical Jesus? http://www.magi.com/~oblio/jesus.html
Doresse, Jean, The Secret Books of the Egyptian Gnostics, Inner Traditions International, 1986
Dowling, Levi, The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ
Dujardin, Edouard, Ancient History of the God Jesus, Watts & Co., 1938
* Novelist
Early Christian Writings, Penguin, 1987
Eusebius, History of the Church, Penguin, 1989
Fox, Robin Lane, Pagans and Christians, Alfred A. Knopf, 1989
Frazer, Sir James, The Golden Bough, MacMillan, 1963
* 1890-1915
Friedman, Richard, Who Wrote the Bible?, Simon & Schuster, 1989
Gaster, Theodore, The Dead Sea Scriptures, Doubleday, 1976
Golb, Norman, Who Wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls?, Scribner, 1995
Goodspeed, Edgar, tr., The Apocrypha, Vintage, 1989
Graham, Lloyd, Deceptions and Myths of the Bible, Citadel, 1991
Graves, Kersey, The Biography of Satan, Book Tree, 1995
Graves, Kersey, The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors, University Books, 1971
* 1875
Hancock, Graham, Fingerprints of the Gods, Crown, 1995
* Nutter rubbish
Harris, Roberta, The World of the Bible, Thames and Hudson, 1995
Haught, James, Holy Horrors, Prometheus, 1990
Hazelrigg, John, The Sun Book, Health Research, 1971
Helms, Randel, Gospel Fictions, Prometheus, 1988
Higgins, Godfrey, Esq., Anacalypsis, A&B Books, 1992
* 1833
Hinduism Today, Vol. 17, No. 6, June, 1995
Hislop, Rev. Alexander, The Two Babylons, Loizeaux Brothers, 1959
* 1853
Historical Atlas of the World, Barnes & Noble, 1972
Holley, Vernal, “Christianity: The Last Great Creation of the Pagan World,” 1994
Jackson, John G., Christianity Before Christ, American Atheists, 1985
Jacolliot, Louis, The Bible in India, Sun Books, 1992
* 1869
Keel, John, Disneyland of the Gods, Amok, 1988
Keeler, Bronson, A Short History of the Bible, Health Research, 1965
Keller, Werner, The Bible as History, Bantam, 1982
* Religious apologetic trash
Kuhn, Alvin Boyd, PhD, The Great Myth of the Sun-Gods,
http://magna.com.au/~prfbrown/ab_kuhn.html
* 1934
Larson, Martin A., The Story of Christian Origins, Village, 1977
Leedom, Tim, ed., The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read, Kendall/Hunt, 1993
Lockhart, Douglas, Jesus the Heretic, Element, 1997
Lost Books of the Bible, The, Crown, 1979
Maccoby, Hyam, The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity, Harper, 1987
Mack, Burton, The Lost Gospel of Q: The Book of Christian Origins, Harper, 1993
Mangasarian, MM, The Truth about Jesus, www.infidels.org
Massey, Gerald, Gnostic and Historic Christianity, Sure Fire Press, 1985
Massey, Gerald, The Egyptian Book of the Dead, Health Research
Massey, Gerald, The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ, Health Research
* Poet, died 1907
Maxwell, Jordan, "Symbols, Sex & The Stars" video series
Mead, GRS, Did Jesus Live 100 B.C.?, Health Research, 1965
Mead, GRS, The Gospels and the Gospel, Health Research, 1972
Mead, GRS, Pistis Sophia, Garber Communications, 1989
* 1903, ?, 1896
Missing Books of the Bible, The, Halo, 1996
Muck, Otto, The Secrets of Atlantis, Time Books, 1978
* Nutter nonsense, both 1931
Mysteries of the Past, American Heritage, 1977
“Naked Truth, The” video series, IRES, 1990
New Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, Hamlyn, 1983
Notovich, Nicholas, The Unknown Life of Jesus Christ, Tree of Life, 1980
* 1890
O'Hara, Gwydion, Sun Lore, Llewellyn, 1997
Pagels, Elaine, Adam, Eve and the Serpent, Vintage, 1989
Pagels, Elaine, The Gnostic Gospels, Vintage, 1989
Parker, Julia and Derek, Parker's Astrology, Dorling Kindersley, 1991
Past Worlds: Atlas of Archaeology, Harper, 1996
Pike, Albert, The Morals and Dogma of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, LH Jenkins, 1928
* 1872
Platt, Rutherford, ed., The Forgotten Books of Eden, Crown, 1981
* 1926 collection of translations from centuries earlier of pseudepigraphical works.
Potter, Charles Francis, The Great Religious Leaders, Simon & Schuster, 1958
Roberts, JM, Esq., Antiquity Unveiled, Health Research, 1970
* 1892
Robertson, JM, Pagan Christs, Dorset, 1966
* 1903
Sitchin, Zecharia, The Lost Realms, Avon, 1990
Sitchin, Zecharia, When Time Began, Avon, 1993
* Nutter rubbish
Steele, John, PhD, "Was Jesus a Taoist?"
Steiner, Rudolf, Christianity as Mystical Fact, Anthroposophic Press, 1972
* 1902
Stone, Merlin, When God was a Woman, Dorset, 1976
Taylor Rev. Robert, The Diegesis, Health Research, 1977
* 1829
Vermes, Geza, The Dead Sea Scrolls, Penguin, 1987
Waite, Charles, History of the Christian Religion to the Year Two Hundred, Caroll Bierbower, 1992
* Died 1909
Walker, Barbara, The Woman's Dictionary of Symbols and Sacred Objects, Harper, 1988
Walker, Barbara, The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, Harper, 1983
Wells, GA, Did Jesus Exist?, Pemberton, 1986
Wells, GA, The Historical Evidence for Jesus, Prometheus, 1988
Wells, GA, Who Was Jesus?, Open Court, 1991
Westerman and Lessing, The Bible: A Pictorial History, Seabury Press, 1977
Wheless, Joseph, Forgery in Christianity, Health Research, 1990
Wheless, Joseph, Is It God’s Word?, www.infidels.org
* 1930, 1926
Whiston, William, tr., The Complete Works of Josephus, Kregel, 1981
* Died 1752
Williams, Sandra, “Sadducean Origins of the Dead Sea Sectarians,” http://ddi.digital.net/~billw/Scrolls/scrolls.html [Dead link]
Wilson, Ian, Jesus: The Evidence, Harper, 1988
Wilson, Robert Anton, Everything is Under Control: Conspiracies, Cults and Cover-ups, Harper, 1998
* Speculative writer

spin

This poster uses language reminiscent of Freethinkaluva22. Freethinkaluva22 is the rabid douche who dogmatically explodes into hate speech at any possible slight to Acharya S at the euphemistically named "Freethought Nation" forum.

This is a direct attack on members here.

Zwaarddijk

spin,
Hayyim ben Yehoshua's article is further not a really credible work as it's clearly polemical and goes to some excesses for ideological reasons. It further contains little in ways of substantiated claims. It contains a list of "further reading", but no actual sources.

As it is written from an anti-missionary perspective, it's clear why it would on occasion exaggerate the case against Christianity.

aa5874

Your post is utter BS. What is the Bibliography of other writers like Ehrman in "Did Jesus Exist?".

You simply cannot decide who Acharya S or any writer should use. Please, you don't make any sense.

spin

Yes. There are in fact lots of things that could be said about the works on this bibliography. The publication dates given for many of the works are purely those of the reprint by the print-on-demand companies who are usually recycling put-out-to-pasture books, as is the case with "Health Research", and hide the actual writing dates. Then, what authority would a work like Dorling Kindersley's "Parker's Astrology" have in a scholarly context? Here's a cut-&-paste from a marketing blurb used by Amazon for Bramley's The Gods of Eden:

As a result of seven years of intense research, William Bramley has unconvered the sinister thread that links humanity's darkest events -- from the wars of the ancient pharaohs to the assissination of JFK.

I bet that does something to you! This bibliography is a remarkable document in itself, showing just what a person can do while not knowing anything about a subject or willing to learn.