Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Dean Anderson · 02-19-2004, 12:03 AM

Don't forget the legend of Lilith...

This says that Genesis 1 relates the story of Adam and Lilith being created together, but that Lilith refused to be submissive to Adam - so she was kicked out of Eden (and went off to fornicate with demons instead) and Eve was created in Genesis 2 as a replacement.

Unfortunately, I don't know where the Lilith legend came from (but I'm sure one of the clever people on this forum will soon edumicate me... hint, hint!)

Toto · 02-19-2004, 12:15 AM

Lilith

From here

Quote:

Lilith, aside from a stray reference comparing her to a "screechowl" (the translation is debatable), does not appear in the Bible itself. It is in Rabbinic midrash (presumably relying on earlier legends) that we find the full delineation of Lilith. The rabbis began with the Biblical reference to man's first creation as a bisexual being--"male and female He [God] created them [the first human]". Some of the rabbis found in this image something similar to what Aristophanes proposed in the Symposium: a dual bodied being later divided into two who must thereafter seek each other out. But others tried to take into account the later creation of Eve detailed further on in the text. If woman was created from Adam, after his initial creation, than what happened to the female created at first? The answer, according to the Midrash, was that she was Lilith; created with Adam, she refused to comply with Adam's demand that she submit herself to him, and in the end fled from him by using the Ineffable Name. Adam then complained to God about his loneliness, and the creation of Eve followed, together with the "Fall" and the Expulsion from Eden. Adam, blaming this on Eve, separated from her, and for a time reunited with Lilith, before finally returning to Eve. (The details of this first soap opera are reported with various embellishments.)

So that is what happens when you try to believe both of the accounts in Genesis.

Toto · 02-19-2004, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by itsallsemantics
. . . Are there other IIDB threads on this? Other sites I should check out on biblical patriarchy? Thanks for the help so far, guys.

This is not a common topic here. The Bible is patriarchal, and most of the Christians who come here to argue are happy with patriarchy and don't make a big point of it.

There are liberal feminist theologians who try to make the Bible right with their modern ideologies. If you google "feminist theology" you will find them.

itsallsemantics · 02-19-2004, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto
There are liberal feminist theologians who try to make the Bible right with their modern ideologies. If you google "feminist theology" you will find them.

I'll try that, thanks. (I love it that 'google' is a verb now!)

Mageth · 02-19-2004, 07:44 AM

An interesting fictional account of Adam and Eve (for entertainment purposes only

) can be found in Mark Twain's The Diary of Adam & Eve. It's a good read.

Edit- Fixed link

Toto · 02-19-2004, 11:09 AM

Also this, from Mark Goodacre's site:
Women and Gender

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02-19-2004, 12:03 AM	#11
Dean Anderson Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Brighton, England Posts: 6,947	Don't forget the legend of Lilith... This says that Genesis 1 relates the story of Adam and Lilith being created together, but that Lilith refused to be submissive to Adam - so she was kicked out of Eden (and went off to fornicate with demons instead) and Eve was created in Genesis 2 as a replacement. Unfortunately, I don't know where the Lilith legend came from (but I'm sure one of the clever people on this forum will soon edumicate me... hint, hint!)

02-19-2004, 07:44 AM	#15
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	An interesting fictional account of Adam and Eve (for entertainment purposes only ) can be found in Mark Twain's The Diary of Adam & Eve. It's a good read. Edit- Fixed link

02-19-2004, 11:09 AM	#16
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Also this, from Mark Goodacre's site: Women and Gender

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