Diogenes the Cynic

Casey says the pig story is made up. He doesn't say all the exorcism stories are true.

Iskander

Mark 5:1-19


Geza Vermes, comments on the casting out of demons , but ignores the pigs.


Jesus uses a standard formula to cast out demons. Jesus wants to know the name of the evil spirit to obtain as much information as possible about the demon because according to the wisdom of his time such knowledge was helpful to exorcists.

Diogenes the Cynic

In addition to the "come out" command, Casey also says that the word Mark uses to describe the commands Jesus gives to the demons (ἐπετίμησεν: typically translated into English as "rebuked") refers to a violence of delivery in the command which is also important. It's not just a command, it's a shout. The exorcist is trying to project an overwhelming sense of authority which overrides the somatic symtoms. In Casey's opinion, Jesus was exceptionally good at this projection...except for when he went to his hometown, of course.

aa5874

Mark 3 Ask Casey if the demon story in Mark 3 is true?? How do unclean spirits talk THE TRUTH???

Diogenes the Cynic

They don't. Casey thinks these cases are somatic, not genuine possession. Casey does not argue for anything supernatural anywhere in his work, as far as I know.

I have seen cultures where somatic illness exists. I spent two years in Liberia. People believe in curses and hexes there, and if someone they believe has power puts a hex on them, they really do get sick. They go to a witch doctor (and they really call them "witch doctors" there) and get the hex taken off, and they get better.

If you've ever been around a deeply superstitious culture, you can see that they don't perceive reality the same way. I've seen some of the same tendencies in some of the surviving Native American cultures I've had contact with (my wife taught at a Sioux reservation school for a couple of years, and I had a roommate who was in the Native American church and knew a lot about Sioux beliefs. There is a tendency to see signs and omens in everything...dripping water, a bird shits on your car...everything is the Great Spirit trying to tell you something).

Iskander

Yes, Vermes comment on Mark 9;14-27 says that Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it.

“ You dumb and deaf spirit, I command you, come out of him, and never enter him again”

Vermes adds an interesting observation :


In Mark Jesus asks questions about the boy’s illness because Mark is willing to admit lack of knowledge in the part of Jesus, but by the time Matthew and Luke wrote their gospels, an imperfection of this kind could no longer be attributed to the Son of God. In consequence they omitted the questions.

sotto voce

As one would tell a naughty child to come out of a room where he should not be. It's a 'ritual', yes.

But not a ritual; however much phoneys in frocks might like to dream that it is.

He told a demon to get out, but one of the demons interrupted him with a strong and mendacious warning, showing that there is more here than usual; and on no other occasion did Jesus ask for a name. The gospeller no doubt anyway intended the reader to be aware that Jesus knew the 'name' he asked for, but that Jesus wanted it explained to his disciples that he had power over many demons; and also, why a herd of pigs was involved.

Toto

A lot of Americans in the 21st century seem to find the same meaning in random events. They might call it "synchronicity" or they might, (as I heard Jane Fonda tell Ophrah once) quote Bill Moyers as saying that God talks to us through coincidences. Or they are Christians who pray for a parking space and feel blessed when one appears.

Our civilization is not as rational as some of us would like.

sotto voce

True; and association of Christianity with North America is not rational at all.

aa5874

I have very little interest in your stories about superstitious cultures since they CANNOT show that gMark's stories are accurate.

You stated, " Maurice Casey spends a lot of time on the exorcisms in Mark ........... some of the stories (according to Casey) are literally accurate accounts of true events".

Please Identify the accurate stories in gMark.

The episodes in Mark 3 and Mark 5 were NOT accurate.

Now, let us examine gMark 9.

Mark 9 Did the dumb and deaf spirit come out the boy?? Did he begin to talk and hear?? Is gMark accurate??

Please, gMark is NOT history so you wont find an accurate story about Jesus without or without demons, and unclean spirits.