Freethought & Rationalism Archive

haight · 08-17-2008, 11:28 PM

The impression I got from reading the NT a couple of times is that Jesus, if he existed, was a Jew.

The only people I've found to claim otherwise are Nationalist Christians who are trying to reconcile their Nationalist beliefs with their Christian beliefs, they require Jesus to be white to be both a Nationalist and a Christian simultaneously, the two are completely incompatible in my opinion.

aa5874 · 08-18-2008, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haight

The impression I got from reading the NT a couple of times is that Jesus, if he existed, was a Jew.

Can you develop your theory ?

I cannot find any passage in the Gospels where Jesus admitted he was a Jew. But, Jesus did admit he was not of this world and the Son of a God.

aa5874 · 08-18-2008, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GakuseiDon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adonael

I got into a discussion today with a non-Christian about whether Jesus was a Jew or not. They could not provide any reasons for believing so other than what some "scholars" had reported to her in passing. I believe that I soundly confuted her, but I am now suspicious whether there are grounds to believe otherwise.

Help?

Not sure if someone has posted this list before, but I can't see it in this thread:

There were 3 good arguments that Jesus was Black:

1. He called everyone brother.
2. He liked Gospel.
3. He didn't get a fair trial.

But then there were 3 equally good arguments that Jesus was Jewish:

1. He went into His Father's business.
2. He lived at home until he was 33.
3. He was sure his Mother was a virgin and his Mother was sure He was God.

But then there were 3 equally good arguments that Jesus was Italian:

1. He talked with His hands.
2. He had wine with His meals.
3. He used olive oil

But then there were 3 equally good arguments that Jesus was a Californian :

1. He never cut His hair.
2. He walked around barefoot all the time.
3. He started a new religion.

But then there were 3 equally good arguments that Jesus was an American Indian :

1. He was at peace with nature.
2. He ate a lot of fish.
3. He talked about the Great Spirit.

But then there were 3 equally good arguments that Jesus was Irish:

1. He never got married.
2. He was always telling stories.
3. He loved green pastures.

But the most compelling evidence of all - 3 proofs that Jesus was a woman:

1. He fed a crowd at a moment's notice when there was virtually no food.
2. He kept trying to get a message across to a bunch of men who just didn't get it.
3. And even when He was dead, He had to get up because there was still work to do.

And, finally he was a "Martian" [from Mars].

Jesus claimed he was not of this world.

Amaleq13 · 08-18-2008, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haight

The impression I got from reading the NT a couple of times is that Jesus, if he existed, was a Jew.

And even if he didn't exist, the character is quite clearly supposed to be understood as Jewish.

Quote:

The only people I've found to claim otherwise are Nationalist Christians who are trying to reconcile their Nationalist beliefs with their Christian beliefs, they require Jesus to be white to be both a Nationalist and a Christian simultaneously, the two are completely incompatible in my opinion.

Yes, only the painfully ignorant or the relentlessly obtuse.

No Robots · 08-18-2008, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aristilus

Reading this thread, I think there is a consensus that Jesus was, in fact Jewish. Going on from that, it goes against everything he would have believed to have offered his body and blood for consumption by his disciples. I know it was "symbolic", but even the slightest hint of that would have been totally abhorrant to devout Jews.
I will be interested to here any opinions on the subject.

The expression "to eat" is applied to the Mashiakh: "They ate him (the Mashiakh) in the days of (king) Hezekiah"; "they have eaten the years of the Messiah ("eat" in the sense of "use up").

Jeffrey Gibson · 08-18-2008, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aristilus

Reading this thread, I think there is a consensus that Jesus was, in fact Jewish. Going on from that, it goes against everything he would have believed to have offered his body and blood for consumption by his disciples. I know it was "symbolic", but even the slightest hint of that would have been totally abhorrant to devout Jews.
I will be interested to here any opinions on the subject.

The expression "to eat" is applied to the Mashiakh: "They ate him (the Mashiakh) in the days of (king) Hezekiah"; "they have eaten the years of the Messiah ("eat" in the sense of "use up").

Fascinating if true. But what is the source of this quote?

Jeffrey

No Robots · 08-18-2008, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

But what is the source of this quote?

Sanhedrin 99a.

spamandham · 08-18-2008, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Could you name some of these mutiple different beliefs that were syncretised by the Gospels?

Various forms of Judaism, Marcionite Christianity, and catholic Christianity. I didn't mention anything about paganism, so I'm not sure where you got that from.

mountainman · 08-18-2008, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spamandham

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Could you name some of these mutiple different beliefs that were syncretised by the Gospels?

Various forms of Judaism, Marcionite Christianity, and catholic Christianity. I didn't mention anything about paganism, so I'm not sure where you got that from.

The Hellenic logos.

Best wishes

Pete

Jeffrey Gibson · 08-18-2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Gibson

But what is the source of this quote?

Sanhedrin 99a.

Leaving aside the lateness of this tractate (and therefore the question of whether what is there is evidence of 1st century Jewish belief), I do not find any reference in 99a to "eating" the Messiah.

We have this:

Quote:

R. Hillel said:There shall be no Messiah for Israel, because they have already enjoyed him in the days of Hezekiah.

We also have a later Jewish commentator (Rashi) noting that what this phrase meant was "the abundance of the times of the Messiah". See here.

So perhaps you could supply us with the Hebrew of this passage so we can see what it actually says.

In any case, does "Take this and use (it) up, for this is my body, etc." really make any sense?

Jeffrey

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-17-2008, 11:28 PM	#91
haight Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: NW Posts: 137	The impression I got from reading the NT a couple of times is that Jesus, if he existed, was a Jew. The only people I've found to claim otherwise are Nationalist Christians who are trying to reconcile their Nationalist beliefs with their Christian beliefs, they require Jesus to be white to be both a Nationalist and a Christian simultaneously, the two are completely incompatible in my opinion.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.