SaintCog

Yeah, well that's great and all. Except that Mark 16.9-20 wasn't part of the original text. All the earliest manuscripts lack this passage, and the Greek is completely different than what we find in Mark 1.1 - 16.8.

oops

Bogie

Maybe.

And maybe not.

You didn't seem to learn much in free.christians.

seebs

I admit that my fascination with "carnal needs" comes from a Jewish teacher, but I still think it's an important and valuable part of the Christian faith.

People who are hungry from lack of food are typically unconcerned with theology. They would like some food, really.

We were told to meet those needs too. I don't think it's optional.

This would also happen if you were walking away from Christ and just being more and more of a jerk to people.

There are many people who fear me or oppose me, for whatever reasons, but I don't think I have any enemies. What's an enemy? An enemy, someone I am commanded to love, is just a friend I haven't gotten to know well enough yet.

Are you sure they are watering down the message, and not preaching a stronger message that just happens to be different?

I agree that some churches focus too much on "gaining converts". However, there is a place for such things within a mature church.

If I ever meet someone in my church with that problem, yes, I'd ask. And no, I wouldn't lose my job. Of course, if I asked it, they could be sure it was a genuinely loving concern, because they would have experience of my pattern of concerned and supportive behavior. I wouldn't be demanding that they imagine that I am loving despite evidence to the contrary.

Thus far, it hasn't come up, though.

I do regularly confront people on sins. Now, I maybe don't do it the same way you do, but I do it, and perhaps more importantly, it works.

You say, quite correctly, that it is the Spirit which convicts. However, it is the Spirit which moves us. So by accepting the leadings we receive, we participate in this most necessary role.

perfessor

Seebs, I really like the way you said this. :thumbs:

Wayne Delia

If anyone asked "like Peter asked," they would probably not only lose their job, they'd be indicted for conspiracy of murder. (Reference is Acts 5:1-5, in which Peter is set up as the first "Godfather" figure.)

WMD

Wayne Delia

Why stop there? Why not continue on with the next two verses? I don't think you want to preach those too loudly, because in the next two verses, Jesus promises a whole array of spectacular super-human abilities that will distinguish Christians from the non-Christians. Two of them are relatively easy to fake: speaking in tongues is exploited by faith-healers who are just spouting unintelligable gibberish, and driving out demons is also performed by the charlatans and televangelists (Bob Larson especially comes to mind), in that you can't drive out what ain't there to begin with, but you sure as hell can act like you did.

The three other special abilities Jesus promised are very objective, very difficult, and very rarely demonstrated with any success: 1) Ability to drink any poison without harm, 2) ability to cure any illness only by prayer and laying on of hands, 3) ability to take up and hold serpents without harm.

Mark 16:16 urges belief, but Mark 16:17-18 outlines several super-powers that ordinary Christians are supposed to be able to do that non-Christians can't do. Not only do those powers fail roughly 100% of the time, it is a rare (and usually unfortunate) occurrance that any Christians actually have the balls to attempt a demonstration. My benchmark for testing these abilities (and, thereby, testing Jesus's credibility) is, respectively, 1) Drink a pint of concentrated hydrosulfuric acid, and demonstrate no damage to the larynx, pharynx, or esophagus. 2) Cure a full-blown case of acquired immunodeficiency syndrome, verified present by a disinterested third party licensed physician, and verified cured after the treatment by a second disinterested third party licensed physician. 3) Hold a venomous, potent, mature rattlesnake by the tail for 1/2 hour. The snake's potency should be verified by a disinterested third party herpetologist.

Since few Christians, if any, are even willing to attempt the tests, I withhold the belief Jesus asked for in Mark 16:16, because Jesus just isn't credible enough to trust.

WMD

seebs

FWIW, I believe it was hyperbole.

Bible John

The world should hate the true disciples.

John 17:14 I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world.
John 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.
John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.
John 17:18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world.
John 17:19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.

Bible John

Yes maybe so then I will quote matt 28

Matt. 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
Matt. 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matt. 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.�

Bible John

The due time came for me. For 196 days I preached and evangelized there. But since my message was rejected so i left.

Matt. 10:14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.