Furyus George

...a pekinese. A great little dog, love him to pieces.

I live in a large apartment complex that covers many hundreds of acres in the suburbs of Washington, DC. Every morning and evening I take my dog for a walk. All I have to do is put on my shoes and he gets very excited.

Besides our daily walks, my dog doesn't go out, save trips to the vet. During trips to the vet, he rides in a crate and isn't able to see much of the passing world.

After his morning walk, I head off for work, where I transport laboratory animals up and down the East Coast (don't worry, I live with other folks who tend to my dog while I'm away). Sometimes I'll drive to Miami and pick up dozens of monkeys and take them to Boston. Other times I'll deliver mice and rats throughout the thriving bioscience community here in DC or down in North Carolina.

With my dogs limited intellectual skills, it's a safe bet that he thinks I spend my entire day walking around the apartment complex, and he can't figure out why I haven't included him, or if I'll ever come back.

My dog has no concept of work, or Miami, or of monkeys, or traffic, or bioscience, or trucks, or the Highway patrol, or motels, or talk radio, or Carolina Blue, and on and on and on. Heck, he gets freaked when the TV turns on and off by itself!

Yet his tiny little brain is more complex and sophisticated than anything man has ever invented.

My point? It is this: For a puny brained human, sitting in Iowa or California or New Delhi to conclude that this is all there is, because they have no verifiable proof of anything else (despite the sun and moon and stars above them) is, to this theist, far more close minded than believing in God could ever be.

Furyus George, believes it's obvious

Rhaedas

1) Close minded would be to ignore any evidence that has or will come. Close minded is also grasping at something that flies in the face of evidence and reason.

2) Which god?

3) As a layman scientist and atheist, I am well aware that what we know barely scraps the potential knowledge of the universe. But we continue to reach for that unreachable goal. This is definitely not all there is...but to jump to the assumption that supernatural myths must be true because we lack certain knowledge thus far is a stretch for me personally.

Godless Wonder

To make your analogy work better, you need to change it a bit. You need to have at least two dogs. One dog, the atheist dog, isn't really sure about what's outside the apartment complex, maybe nothing, but he thinks he'll never get there, and neither will any other dogs, and he thinks that when he dies, he dies, and his body gets cremated, or buried and and that's that.

The other theistic dog tries to convince the first dog that when he dies, he goes to doggy heaven, somewhere outside the apartment complex and it's all rolling green hills and forests and chasing frisbees and squirrels all day and master will play with him forever and ever.

Which dog has gotten closest to the truth of the matter?

Furyus George

Ah! Cary! You live in a good part of the world!

Depends on what the evidence is and who is doing the reasoning.

Does it matter?

I can respect that. For me, the stretch is considering astronomy and concluding there is no God.

Furyus George, in awe

variant 13

George are you familar with the term Pan Narrans?

Googling it should get some fun stuff (no not porn)

That's what we are (or so I think).

Yes, well to you anyway, if you're wrong you burn.

Postcard73

I find this an interesting response. If I concluded that Zeus existed and should be worshipped - that he was the reason for the stars and the sun and the moon - do you think it would matter which god I chose to worship?

Godless Wonder

For me, a site like this atlas of the universe makes it seem to me that, if there is a God, the stage is far far too big for us to have any important part of the play, or if we do have any important part, none of the religous books have got any clue whatsoever about what that part might be, since astronomy historically contradicts traditional religions rather than confirming them. As far as Deistic gods, science appears to be silent on this topic, unless you fancy "gods of the gaps." Occam's razor says to me that they probably don't exist.

Furyus George

Yes, I do.

The intent of my response was to try and keep the discussion from turning into a Bible verse/anti-Christian flame war. Jesus Christ used scripture in His witness, yet to do so here sets off everyone's defensive bells and whistles. I am trying to reconcile, for myself, the Lord's example and the fact that quoting the Bible to people who don't believe in it is difficult, to say the least.

To be transparent, perhaps my motive was to plant a seed that there may be a God, and let others worry about the doctrine another day.

Furyus George, trying to be civil

Postcard73

Fair enough- thanks for the explanation...

Furyus George

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jmebob
George are you familar with the term Pan Narrans?

Googling it should get some fun stuff (no not porn)

That's what we are (or so I think).[/QUOTE}

I wasn't until this evening. Do they have those in London? Fear not, I still love you Brits!

Furyus George, family left England in 1640