Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Radcliffe Emerson · 10-27-2003, 04:50 AM

An Orthodox Jewish rabbi was asked at www.beliefnet.com why the Jews never accepted Jesus. He replied the attributes given Jesus were not Jewish, and said Christian OT interpretations were not accurate.

In fact, almost every attribute given Jesus (virgin birth, crucificion, feeding the thousands, raising the dead) are attributes from earlier religious systems, tacked onto Jesus. Buddha for example, was born of a virgin, and allegedly did many of the same things Jesus did.

Vorkosigan · 10-27-2003, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by EGGO
From someplace I heard while just looking around my college campus. I'm not quite familiar with this, can anybody help where it's found and all that?

When the NT authors wrote the Gospels, they used the OT as a "proof-text" in which they could find the actions and ideas for Jesus' life. This involved taking out of context quotes from the OT and constructing events from them. It is most clear in the Passion Narrative, the story of Jesus' life from his arrest to his death.

For example, the passage where Jesus is given something nasty to drink on the cross is taken from Psalm 69:21, "They...made me drink vinegar for my thirst." Similarly the casting of lots for his clothes is taken from Psalm 22:18.

When modern Christian wackos look at these, they treat them as "prophecies" not literary construction. Thus, Psalm 22 becomes a prophecy of divvying up Jesus' clothing, rather than the source for the construction of the story.

Hope this helps

Vorkosigan

Vorkosigan · 10-27-2003, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Although the original Christian apologists in particular the Apostles did not accept Greek ideas, The Christian church did a couple of centuries later mix in a whole panolply of Greek and other teachings which totally confused the original Bible message. Blame for this is laid at the feet of 3rd and 4th century Bishops (specifics if you want them).

I do not think you will find any support among experts for the idea that the entrance of Greek philosophy and ideas into Christianity is a 3rd and 4th century affair. Hellenistic philosophical concepts and ideas may be found in many of the early writings of the NT.

Vorkosigan

Brian_iiiii · 10-30-2003, 02:45 PM

==================================
Hellenistic philosophical concepts and ideas may be found in many of the early writings of the NT.

Vorkosigan
==================================

Examples?

Gilgameshsoul · 10-30-2003, 03:11 PM

Biblical prophecies are "fullfilled" because the Bible claims they are fullfilled. It's a circular argument.

In order to prove prophecies were fulfilled, you have to use extra-biblical sources. That's a little tougher than just pointing to verses in the bible and saying "Look at all these prophecies that were fullfilled! It's amazing!"

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10-27-2003, 04:50 AM	#11
Radcliffe Emerson Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the dark side of Mars Posts: 1,309	An Orthodox Jewish rabbi was asked at www.beliefnet.com why the Jews never accepted Jesus. He replied the attributes given Jesus were not Jewish, and said Christian OT interpretations were not accurate. In fact, almost every attribute given Jesus (virgin birth, crucificion, feeding the thousands, raising the dead) are attributes from earlier religious systems, tacked onto Jesus. Buddha for example, was born of a virgin, and allegedly did many of the same things Jesus did.

10-30-2003, 02:45 PM	#14
Brian_iiiii Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: U.S.A Posts: 63	================================== Hellenistic philosophical concepts and ideas may be found in many of the early writings of the NT. Vorkosigan ================================== Examples?

10-30-2003, 03:11 PM	#15
Gilgameshsoul New Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Mississippi Posts: 3	Biblical prophecies are "fullfilled" because the Bible claims they are fullfilled. It's a circular argument. In order to prove prophecies were fulfilled, you have to use extra-biblical sources. That's a little tougher than just pointing to verses in the bible and saying "Look at all these prophecies that were fullfilled! It's amazing!"

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