Ben C Smith

Whaaaat? Where did I say that? I think you have me confused with somebody else.

Ben.

Steven Avery

Hi Malachi,

I think your Amos and Mark parallelisms,
including Amos 2:16 and Mark 14:52, are quite worthwhile.

Mark 14:50-52
And they all forsook him, and fled.
And there followed him a certain young man,
having a linen cloth cast about his naked body;
and the young men laid hold on him:
And he left the linen cloth,
and fled from them naked.

Amos 2:16
And he that is courageous among the mighty
shall flee away naked in that day, saith the LORD.

This is discussed a bit at ..

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=002...3E2.0.CO%3B2-S
Why the Youth Shed His Cloak and Fled Naked:
The Meaning and Purpose of Mark 14:51-52 - Howard M. Jackson

Where I can get from Google, sans JStor purchase ..

"The likelihood of influence from Amos is lessened by the fact that the presence of the shed-garment motif is much clearer in the Hebrew text than in the..."

Which sounds like a minimal lessened .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregg Practically every detail of Jesus' ministry and every detail of the crucifixion can be found in the Jewish scriptures. ... (If there really were that many parallels, we should all be down on our knees right now confessing our sins and accepting Jesus, because it would be a miracle!)

Amen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregg I don't understand how spending years learning Greek or text criticism is supposed to make me see how ridiculous it is. Without disparaging education, sometimes common sense really is right.

Knowledge does not necessarily equate to intelligence, wisdom and common sense ?

<shocked, shocked>

Shalom,
Steven Avery

jgibson000

Curious that the person you consulted was not a witch doctor, but (I assume) was medically trained, certified, and licensed and did not disagree with the idea that one should never take medical advice from someone who has not gone to an accredited medical school or lacks credentials and certification.

JG

jgibson000

And here I thought that given all the emphasis in "the Christian texts" on discipleship and ethics and dealing with factionalism and persecution, the point was to bring about (to use Paul's language) "the obedience of faitfulness". Silly me.

In any case, You are equivocating now on the meaning of "divine".

May I suggest that we read together Murray Harris' Jesus as God:The New Testament References to Jesus as Theos in the New Testament and Larry Hurtado's Lord Jesus Christ: Devotion to Jesus in Earliest Christianity and Jimmy Dunn's Christology in the Making, Tom Wright's What St. Paul Really Said, Ray Brown's An Introduction to New Testament Christology, as well as some older but still useful works -- Oscar Culmann's, The Christology of the New Testament and C.F.D. Moule's The Origin of Christology -- to see whether your claims above and below have merit.

I deny it. And if I'm condemned, then I am in very good company.

In any case, what do you have to say about the claim regarding the existence in the fisrt century and before of a purported widespread belief in "dying and rising saviour gods"?

Jeffrey

jgibson000

Where in Jewish literature is the Son of Man depicted or thought of as having a role in the creation?

JG

Steven Avery

Smart move, Jiri, well done and congrats. I did similar multi-research for my pop on a physiological question (supposedly necessary blood transfusion for low iron and hemoglobin) with a similarly successful outcome that led to a little-known-at-the-time alternative. I do wonder on the lithium issue what a non-drug-company influenced study that looked at alternatives fairly would show. We might have to bifurcate the thread "mythicist/historicist debate" to an additional "pharmaceuticalist/naturalista dialog".

Shalom,
Steven Avery

jgibson000

Where in Jewish literature is the Son of Man depicted or thought of as having a role in the creation?

JG

Solo

True, but the point of the story was that one should not get intimidated by trained, certified and licenced professionals when they propose to screw with your brain and you have a strong gut feeling it won't help. (Want an impeccable secondary source to that one, Jeffrey ? Try Baldad's test of Job Sanity, in Testament of Job, Charlesworth's PG vI).

Jiri

jgibson000

That's nice to hear. But since no one has claimed that biblical scholars have done what you claim doctors did to you, the point is irrelevant.

Moreover, how many times have you discovered -- or has it come to light -- that your apparent arbiter of truth, i.e., your gut feeling, was wrong?

JG

Gregg

Well, no. Who would claim that? It can lead to intelligence, wisdom, and common sense, but it doesn't always equate to intelligence, wisdom, and common sense.