Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Decypher · 11-20-2008, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Matthew 24

[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Partial preterists will say that these verses were fulfilled in the first century, and are about a "coming in judgement" on Jerusalem or whatever else.

So is there any support for partial preterism in early Christianity? Are there any apocryphal works or church fathers who teach it?

Please note: I am aware that some church fathers certainly do connect some of the Olivet Discourse with the destruction of Jerusalem in the first century. What I am interested in here, are the specific verses of Matthew 24:30-31. Are these said to be fulfilled in the first century?

Also, if anyone knows of relevant apocryphal works that connect with these verses I am interested in that whether they suggest a first century fulfillment or not.

I know of the Didache:

Quote:

16:6 And then shall appear the signs of the truth; first the sign of the appearance in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet, and thirdly the resurrection of the dead

16:7 -- not of all, but as it has been said, The Lord shall come and all his saints with him;

16:8 then shall the world behold the Lord coming on the clouds of heaven.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/libr...xt_didache.htm

And the Apocalypse of Peter:

Quote:

And when the Lord was seated upon the Mount of Olives, his disciples came unto him.

And we besought and entreated him severally and prayed him, saying unto him: Declare unto us what are the signs of thy coming and of the end of the world, that we may perceive and mark the time of thy coming and instruct them that come after us, unto whom we preach the word of thy gospel, and whom we set over (in) thy church, that they when they hear it may take heed to themselves and mark the time of thy coming.

And our Lord answered us, saying: Take heed that no man deceive you, and that ye be not doubters and serve other gods. Many shall come in my name, saying: I am the Christ. Believe them not, neither draw near unto them. For the coming of the Son of God shall not be plain (i.e. foreseen); but as the lightning that shineth from the east unto the west, so will I come upon the clouds of heaven with a great host in my majesty; with my cross going before my face will I come in my majesty, shining sevenfold more than the sun will I come in my majesty with all my saints, mine angels (mine holy angels). And my Father shall set a crown upon mine head, that I may judge the quick and the dead and recompense every man according to his works.

http://www.gnosis.org/library/apocpeter.htm

gregor · 11-20-2008, 06:13 AM

If partial preterists are not inerrantists and will concede some late authorship and pseudepigrapha, they must account for 2 Peter. If written after 70 CE, how can they explain that the author acknowledged in chapter 3 that Jesus has not fulfilled the Olivet discourse.

If they maintain Peterine authorship and a pre-70 date, further discussions would be fruitless.

judge · 11-21-2008, 01:16 AM

You could try at the preterist archive

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11-20-2008, 06:13 AM	#2
gregor Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 932	If partial preterists are not inerrantists and will concede some late authorship and pseudepigrapha, they must account for 2 Peter. If written after 70 CE, how can they explain that the author acknowledged in chapter 3 that Jesus has not fulfilled the Olivet discourse. If they maintain Peterine authorship and a pre-70 date, further discussions would be fruitless.

11-21-2008, 01:16 AM	#3
judge Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bli Bli Posts: 3,135	You could try at the preterist archive

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