Freethought & Rationalism Archive

everettf · 04-15-2006, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helo

Ok, right off the bat lets get something straight. Im not trying to be offensive or rattle anyone's cage, Im asking an honest question out of honest curiosity and I'd appreciate an honest answer. I dont mean to sound condescending, I have the utmost respect for other people's beliefs.

Ive always looked at the world with a certain ammount of wonder, in my eyes theres so many things in this world that I find it difficult to say "EVERYTHING has a scientific or rational explanation."

I just....I have a hard time understanding how certain people can look at the world and NOT believe that theres atleast some type of higher power or atleast some idea that we as people cant see or test for.

Being an atheist for 55 of my 71 years, I discovered a long time ago that the gods(all of Them) were imaginary friends for adults. Being indoctrinated as a child you didn't have a choice.

Sarcasmo · 04-15-2006, 07:41 AM

How can I be an Atheist?

How can I not!
To me, believers need an answer for everything. If something isn't easily explainable then obviously it is the will of a higher power.
Why is the sky blue.... because god made it that way.( an easy explination that an individual may not have the correct answer to (and still be correct

))

Anything I need answered, can be answered with science. I don't need to make shit up and blame it on an imaginary being, just to have some closure.
I am perfectly fine replying "don't know,don't care" to any question that doesn't intrest me.

God may provide a starting point for answering questions when you were a young child. At some point your mind should grow to understand more complex things as you age. You should have the intellegence to abandon this ficticious being when it's no longer needed( just like santa clause)

sputum · 04-15-2006, 07:43 AM

As someone who has only recently realized my inner atheist, I feel like the blinders are finally off. The beauty is there, I just never cared to look.

Quote:

=Lonewolf
Now I am an atheist and I am even MORE in awe of it! But just because the universe engenders an emotional response in me is no reason to believe there is some supernatural explanation behind it all. We are tiny organisms living on a tiny speck of rock flying through a universe of unimaginable size. Of course we are going to be in awe of it.

Well put. I regret not having asked the very question that Helo has at 18. Now, at 37, I want to go back to school and learn more about this amazing universe.

Alas, for now, I read all I can (Dawkins, Sagan, Hawking), REREAD, lurk here, etc...

Quote:

=CanoeMan
As we speak, billions of almost imperceptible particles pass through our bodies, without us even noticing. We're orbiting a gigantic nuclear explosion about 90 million miles away with a speed of about 20 miles a second, on a vulcanic rock with only a thin shroud of gas keeping us alive. The size of that explosion (the sun) is so large that the farthest distance man has ever travelled (from the earth to the moon) is just a quarter of its diameter. Every person who ever lived have never been so far away from everyone else that they couldn't easily be fitted inside the sun. In a single snowflake there are enough atoms that if every person on earth took a hundred million of them each, it wouldn't affect the snowflake at all. When something is going fast relative to you, it becomes shorter and heavier and time itself starts going slower for that object.

llanitedave · 04-15-2006, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolf

Llanitedave, only going off this post that you made you don't strike me as an atheist. Talking about a "higher power" and an "artist" seems antithetical to atheism. To me it sounds more like deism. I was a deist until very recently and my world view was almost identical to what you just described. But like I said, I am only going off this one post you made.

There's no practical difference between deism and atheism, as far as I can see. Both deny a personal, miraculous God. Any remaining differences are only of internal perspective.

And I'm NOT asserting my perspective as some "truth" that others need to accept. It's not like you'll go to hell or anything if you disagree.

llanitedave · 04-15-2006, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhivago

I can hardly improve on what has been posted in this thread thusfar. But my slant is this: at 18 years old, you likely relate to things on a more visceral level. You see or experience something and can't help but wonder at it, the beauty of a thing or its grandeur. As someone almost 30 years older, I'm still clinging to the last vestiges of that very perspective, but admittedly, it is hard. I nonetheless envy you for your age and your outlook.
Time changes everyone and everything, however. Your outlook will be tempered by experience and perspective; the shine will come off the apple, to an extent. This does NOT mean that you have to be cynical or jaded, as has been pointed out. You will find that some things retain their wondrous qualities, while other things become clearer for what they are. Again, it's perspective. Educate yourself, ask questions, and listen. As Walt Whitman said, "Re-examine all that you have learned at school, in church, or in books, and dismiss what is insulting to your soul." What is near and dear to me may be quite different to you, but that's what's great about the whole thing, our uniqueness. You may come to find that what is wondrous might well be explained scientifically or logically. Or maybe you'll be the one to reveal that everyone professing their lack of faith or belief here will indeed be eternally damned

. In any case, enjoy the time that's given you and inject whatever meaning into it that you can. And let me know about the damnation thing if you find out, will ya?!

For myself, Zhivago, at 50 the shine is even brighter than ever. Yeah, I get disgusted with people often enough, and life is sometimes too tough to enjoy it fully, but exploring the universe itself, whether the nature of the cosmos around us, the earth and sea beneath us, or the life among us creates a fascination and an appreciation that deepens with time. And as disgusting as people can be, they're pretty fascinating too. The study is intellectual in its method, but visceral in its character. I'm glad Helo feels it, but it doesn't have to fade with age.

rationalOne · 04-15-2006, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helo

Atheism just strikes me as a very cold, dead way to look at a world that, atleast to me, looks the exact opposite.

Atheism is just a way of looking at the world without the addition of myths and fables that are unecessary and burdensome, and frequently ridiculous and harmful. If that's considered "cold", what can I say. :huh:

On the other hand, theism strikes me as greedy and narcissistic (in its anthrocentrism).

What was that famous quote - it's not enough that the garden is beautiful, but there have to be fairies living at the bottom of it?

:devil1: - feels like rattling cages a little

llanitedave · 04-15-2006, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanoeMan

As we speak, billions of almost imperceptible particles pass through our bodies, without us even noticing. We're orbiting a gigantic nuclear explosion about 90 million miles away with a speed of about 20 miles a second, on a vulcanic rock with only a thin shroud of gas keeping us alive. The size of that explosion (the sun) is so large that the farthest distance man has ever travelled (from the earth to the moon) is just a quarter of its diameter. Every person who ever lived have never been so far away from everyone else that they couldn't easily be fitted inside the sun. In a single snowflake there are enough atoms that if every person on earth took a hundred million of them each, it wouldn't affect the snowflake at all. When something is going fast relative to you, it becomes shorter and heavier and time itself starts going slower for that object.

This reminds me of "The Galaxy Song" by Eric Idle, from Monty Python's The Meaning of Life.

Most scientifically accurate ditty ever written, I think.

Gawen · 04-15-2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helo

Atheism just strikes me as a very cold, dead way to look at a world that, atleast to me, looks the exact opposite.

Now THAT is what puzzles me. How such a vast and diverse world can leave anyone feeling this way is beyond me...and we hear it alot. Nevermind a god or not, a worldview or not.

Atheists, and it's about the only difference from theists, just don't need a warm fuzzy feeling of a god to appreciate the world in all its glory and shortcomings. It puzzles me that many theists see atheists as cold, calculating in the worldview and cannot see the simply joys of icecream, babies, blue skies and even rain.

seebs · 04-15-2006, 11:29 AM

I have to agree with this, Gawen. I'd actually like to go further, and point out that if you have to believe in God to appreciate beauty, then the entire concept of general revelation is shot; the common belief among theists that this beauty is a testimony to God is useless unless you can perceive the beauty before you believe.

cgordon · 04-15-2006, 11:32 AM

>Originally Posted by Helo
>Atheism just strikes me as a very cold, dead way to look at a world that,
>atleast to me, looks the exact opposite.

Helo, you need to get out more and get to know more atheists. We're happy, functional, loving, curious, eager, exciting, excited ...

Really.

The universe is vast and beautiful, and while there is no place in it for a creator, there is plenty of space for wonder, imagination, reason and beauty.

I'm eagerly awaiting summertime (a few weeks in July and August here), so I can lie outside on my patio and stare into space ... we're in the hills, an easy hour from anything resembling a city ... it's AMAZING. Hedgewitch and I love to do that. We get lucky occasionally and see a satellite, an once, we got to watch a traverse of the ISS.

But those are just treats. The stars ... MAN! The stars! Imagine the journey of the light coming from anywhere from 10 light years to millions ...

No gods, just wonder and awe. For sure.

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04-15-2006, 07:41 AM	#32
Sarcasmo Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: everywhere Posts: 843	How can I be an Atheist? How can I not! To me, believers need an answer for everything. If something isn't easily explainable then obviously it is the will of a higher power. Why is the sky blue.... because god made it that way.( an easy explination that an individual may not have the correct answer to (and still be correct )) Anything I need answered, can be answered with science. I don't need to make shit up and blame it on an imaginary being, just to have some closure. I am perfectly fine replying "don't know,don't care" to any question that doesn't intrest me. God may provide a starting point for answering questions when you were a young child. At some point your mind should grow to understand more complex things as you age. You should have the intellegence to abandon this ficticious being when it's no longer needed( just like santa clause)

04-15-2006, 11:29 AM	#39
seebs Contributor Join Date: May 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN Posts: 24,524	I have to agree with this, Gawen. I'd actually like to go further, and point out that if you have to believe in God to appreciate beauty, then the entire concept of general revelation is shot; the common belief among theists that this beauty is a testimony to God is useless unless you can perceive the beauty before you believe.

04-15-2006, 11:32 AM	#40
cgordon Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,402	>Originally Posted by Helo >Atheism just strikes me as a very cold, dead way to look at a world that, >atleast to me, looks the exact opposite. Helo, you need to get out more and get to know more atheists. We're happy, functional, loving, curious, eager, exciting, excited ... Really. The universe is vast and beautiful, and while there is no place in it for a creator, there is plenty of space for wonder, imagination, reason and beauty. I'm eagerly awaiting summertime (a few weeks in July and August here), so I can lie outside on my patio and stare into space ... we're in the hills, an easy hour from anything resembling a city ... it's AMAZING. Hedgewitch and I love to do that. We get lucky occasionally and see a satellite, an once, we got to watch a traverse of the ISS. But those are just treats. The stars ... MAN! The stars! Imagine the journey of the light coming from anywhere from 10 light years to millions ... No gods, just wonder and awe. For sure.

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