Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 08-10-2011, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Dot

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

And further the name "Christian" is an ambiguous name given to those who even BLASPHEME the name of God and Even BEFORE the time of Nero people were called Christians who followed the teachings of Simon Magus a magician DURING the time of the Emperor Claudius according to Justin Martyr.

According to Origen before they were called Christians they called themselves Simonians. (Against Celsus, vi.11)

Since the name Simonian limited them to Simon Magus by the third century they abandoned their connection to Simon Magus and started calling themselves by more respectable names that people would accept. They preferred to be denominated by names of the chief pagan gods, but, they also wanted to be called Christians.

Justin Martyr lived about 100 years BEFORE Origen and wrote that MANY persons were called Christians, not ONLY the followers of Simon Magus, Menander and Marcion.

"Dialogue with Trypho" XXXV

Quote:

...(For some in one way, others in another, teach to blaspheme the Maker of all things, and Christ...... with whom we have nothing in common, since we know them to be atheists, impious, unrighteous, and sinful, and confessors of Jesus in name only, instead of worshippers of Him.

Yet they style themselves Christians....... Some are called Marcians, and some Valentinians, and some Basilidians, and some Saturnilians, and others by other names.....

So people called themselves Christians even though they did NOT BELIEVE the Jesus story at least 200 years BEFORE Origen. Simon Magus is claimed to have LIVED during the time of CLAUDIUS which is BEFORE Nero.

Dogfish · 08-12-2011, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Dot

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Little Dot you do not appear to know the difference between a fictitious event and a miracle.

An eclipse is NOT the product of miracles.

Mark 15:25 indicates that it was the third hour when Jesus was crucified (9 a.m.).

Mark 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour.

From the sixth hour until the ninth hour means from noon until 3 p.m.

The darkness was obviously supernatural since an eclipse of the sun at full noon is impossible.

What can I say :huh:

Of course, there is no question of the darkness occuring, right?

Doug Shaver · 08-12-2011, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little Dot

The darkness was obviously supernatural since an eclipse of the sun at full noon is impossible.

Not at all. A solar eclipse at noon is probably not even unusual. Perhaps you meant to write "at full moon"?

ahdenai · 08-13-2011, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Little Dot: Mark 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land until the ninth hour.

From the sixth hour until the ninth hour means from noon until 3 p.m.

The darkness was obviously supernatural since an eclipse of the sun at full noon is impossible.

while a solar eclipse can certainly occur at noon, it cannot occur during a full moon. Passover always takes place at the time of the full moon, and therefore there could not have been a solar eclipse at the time of the alleged crucifixion.

additionally, the darkness of a solar eclipse lasts a few minutes (max, 7; see wikipedia), and not for hours.

the three hour darkness at noon is just as likely as water turning into wine, or any of the other "miracles" described in the gospels. If you believe one, you believe the other.

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