Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The Dagda · 12-23-2008, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Quote:

Originally Posted by badger3k

No - (or at least, not here) - the argument is that YHVH commanded genocide. And his followers, if we are to believe these myths, gleefully carried out such genocide. We're really looking at it from different ways. I (and others) look at it as the product of humans, who look at such myths and see that their god is comfortable with, and can command, genocide against those who disagree/disgust them. This can lead to such things actually happening in the real world (and has happened). You, on the other hand, seem to be operating from entirely within the fantasy, and are looking for justifications that might make sense there, but have no correlation to reality. Somehow, I doubt that the idea that there were half-human hybrids that had to be destroyed was ever a part of the wars and aggressions that have flowered with Christianity. The fact that God has commanded that the infidel be killed, to the least child, has, however. That's why argue over such things.

Going by your logic, innocent nations deserve to be destroyed and completely sterilized of human life. That makes us all guilty and deserving of death. When the Christians of the world get together and decide what constitutes the requirements for being saved by your gods' bad weekend, you can let the rest of us know, so we won't be killed for believing in the wrong form of Christianity (Cathars, anyone).

1. We are not talking about Christians (which Jesus said to love your enemies not kill them)
2. The Jews didn't "gleefully" war against the Nephilim when they saw them they pleaded with Moses to return to Egypt.
3. Accusing God of genocide and the commanding genocide is the same thing
4. Your spins will not work on me

So how can critics (not just on here) accuse God of Genocide against "innocent nations" when by the texts it is about Adamic races replacing monstrous hybrids?

You should quote from scripture if your going to use that as an argument, it puts it in context.

You mean Genesis vs 1-4 chapter 6.

Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Conflict of Adam bk 3 chapter 4

Certain wise men of old wrote concerning them, and say in their [sacred] books, that angels came down from heaven, and mingled with the daughters of Cain, who bare unto them these giants. But these [wise men] err in what they say. God forbid such a thing, that angels who are spirits, should be found committing sin with human beings. Never, that cannot be. And if such a thing were of the nature of angels, or Satans, that fell, they would not leave one woman on earth, undefiled... But many men say, that angels came down from heaven, and joined themselves to women, and had children by them. This cannot be true. But they were children of Seth, who were of the children of Adam, that dwelt on the mountain, high up, while they preserved their virginity, their innocence and their glory like angels; and were then called 'angels of God.' But when they transgressed and mingled with the children of Cain, and begat children, ill-informed men said, that angels had come down from heaven, and mingled with the daughters of men, who bare them giants.

And Book of Enoch:

And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it..

sugarhitman · 12-23-2008, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dagda

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

1. We are not talking about Christians (which Jesus said to love your enemies not kill them)
2. The Jews didn't "gleefully" war against the Nephilim when they saw them they pleaded with Moses to return to Egypt.
3. Accusing God of genocide and the commanding genocide is the same thing
4. Your spins will not work on me

So how can critics (not just on here) accuse God of Genocide against "innocent nations" when by the texts it is about Adamic races replacing monstrous hybrids?

You should quote from scripture if your going to use that as an argument, it puts it in context.

You mean Genesis vs 1-4 chapter 6.

Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then the Lord said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Conflict of Adam bk 3 chapter 4

Certain wise men of old wrote concerning them, and say in their [sacred] books, that angels came down from heaven, and mingled with the daughters of Cain, who bare unto them these giants. But these [wise men] err in what they say. God forbid such a thing, that angels who are spirits, should be found committing sin with human beings. Never, that cannot be. And if such a thing were of the nature of angels, or Satans, that fell, they would not leave one woman on earth, undefiled... But many men say, that angels came down from heaven, and joined themselves to women, and had children by them. This cannot be true. But they were children of Seth, who were of the children of Adam, that dwelt on the mountain, high up, while they preserved their virginity, their innocence and their glory like angels; and were then called 'angels of God.' But when they transgressed and mingled with the children of Cain, and begat children, ill-informed men said, that angels had come down from heaven, and mingled with the daughters of men, who bare them giants.

And Book of Enoch:

And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it..

I guess i should make this very simple.

Was it Adamic races displacing the Nephilim or Jews commiting genocide against "innocent nations" in the BIBLE and not some other books. We are talking about the bible in which critics use to attack God concerning genocide of "innocent nations" can you answer this without getting off topic? If not move on.

figuer · 12-23-2008, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Was it Adamic races displacing the Nephilim or Jews commiting genocide against "innocent nations" in the BIBLE and not some other books. We are talking about the bible in which critics use to attack God concerning genocide of "innocent nations" can you answer this without getting off topic? If not move on.

According to standard Judeo-Christian mythology (= Bible) it was the Israelites exterminating other humans to take their lands. Thus it would be "god" sanctioned genocide.

Exciter · 12-23-2008, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

What, no cartoon? you must be losing energy

LOL, no. You start whining whether people respond you either way and start with a bunch of lame assertions you can't back up or you resort to your useless street preachin' and stupid 'unknown' quotes...

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

(tired from his own tired antics perhaps?)

or trying to guess and impress with your igonorant, miserable, projections. Something you never seem to tire of.

Are you sure when you preach "on stage" you don't do some sorta shuffle?
It's hard to imagine you don't, lol.

Like I've said before, if believing in your fantasies keeps you from harming other people then by all means don't stop fantasizing, until you can afford to get professional help for the harsh, miserable life you live.

.

The Dagda · 12-23-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

I guess i should make this very simple.

Was it Adamic races displacing the Nephilim or Jews commiting genocide against "innocent nations" in the BIBLE and not some other books. We are talking about the bible in which critics use to attack God concerning genocide of "innocent nations" can you answer this without getting off topic? If not move on.

Where is your evidence? And don't give me that site, it's abysmal. Let's face it the Nephilim are a Jewish mystical belief, not a Christian one at all, in fact that's why such books only appear in Jewish Cannon if at all. Apart from Genesis and a small mention later on they are notably absent from the KJV and other Bibles. And none of that stuff you keep saying is anywhere in any book. It's all very well having a belief but where do you get this from? The Nephelim were destroyed in the flood by God. What need to attack the Canaanites on that basis, or any other tribe?

sugarhitman · 12-23-2008, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuer

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Was it Adamic races displacing the Nephilim or Jews commiting genocide against "innocent nations" in the BIBLE and not some other books. We are talking about the bible in which critics use to attack God concerning genocide of "innocent nations" can you answer this without getting off topic? If not move on.

According to standard Judeo-Christian mythology (= Bible) it was the Israelites exterminating other humans to take their lands. Thus it would be "god" sanctioned genocide.

Standard Judasim "mythology" holds in their own text that the Hebrews dispossessed the Nephilim. And yet because of these myths God is accused of Genocide against "innocent nations" or "nations with a different culture" which is misleading.

Answer the ? The Hebrew text (yes the bible) Adamic races displacing the Nephilim or God killing off "innocent nations"? What does the text says about this?

The reason you are twisting and spinning like a top is because you don't want to directly answer this (none of you do). "Oh its only mythology" you say which is not the topic of the thread and which is not what I asked.

The bible "myths" Adamic races displacing the Nephilim (which also according to the text involved non Jews Adamic peoples) or God just commanding to kill "innocent nations."

The Dagda · 12-23-2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Quote:

Originally Posted by figuer

According to standard Judeo-Christian mythology (= Bible) it was the Israelites exterminating other humans to take their lands. Thus it would be "god" sanctioned genocide.

Standard Judasim "mythology" holds in their own text that the Hebrews dispossessed the Nephilim. And yet because of these myths God is accused of Genocide against "innocent nations" or "nations with a different culture" which is misleading.

Answer the ? The Hebrew text (yes the bible) Adamic races displacing the Nephilim or God killing off "innocent nations"? What does the text says about this?

The reason you are twisting and spinning like a top is because you don't want to directly answer this (none of you do). "Oh its only mythology" you say which is not the topic of the thread and which is not what I asked.

The bible "myths" Adamic races displacing the Nephilim (which also according to the text involved non Jews Adamic peoples) or God just commanding to kill "innocent nations."

After Noah there were no Nephilim, so why attack the Canaanites on this basis? It's a simple question?

Exciter · 12-23-2008, 12:57 PM

How did these giants survive the flood? Were they part of the cargo? Did they hold their breath for 140 days?

If angels had sex with humans after the flood, whose descendants did they have sex with?

Japeth's?

Shem's?

Ham's?

How come there are only a websites that are like the op's link [lameass one's] that show there are fossils of giants?

The Dagda · 12-23-2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exciter

How did these giants survive the flood? Where they part of the cargo? Did they hold their breath for 140 days?

If angels had sex with humans after the flood, whose descendants did they have sex with?

Japeth's?

Shem's?

Ham's?

They didn't even in Jubilees it says that they survived only as demons/spirits and a very small number to tempt men. And there were no siblings that survived in any land. Even the Jews ascribe the Nephilim to the weakness of those who saw the Canaanites and ascribed them to false beings.

The nephilim are seen by all faiths as having been destroyed by the flood, and thus are antediluvian.

Exciter · 12-23-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dagda

They didn't even in Jubilees it says that they survived only as demons/spirits and a very small number to tempt men. And there were no siblings that survived in any land. Even the Jews ascribe the Nephilim to the weakness of those who saw the Canaanites and ascribed them to false beings.

The nephilim are seen by all faiths as having been destroyed by the flood, and thus are antediluvian.

Except for sugarhitman....

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12-23-2008, 12:57 PM	#78
Exciter Banned Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: America? Posts: 1,168	How did these giants survive the flood? Were they part of the cargo? Did they hold their breath for 140 days? If angels had sex with humans after the flood, whose descendants did they have sex with? Japeth's? Shem's? Ham's? How come there are only a websites that are like the op's link [lameass one's] that show there are fossils of giants?

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