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Old 06-10-2008, 11:42 AM   #21
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Great find, it's just a shame that it has to be tarnished with sensationalism.
That's regular with archaeology of the Levant, unfortunately. Just look at the Temech seal, or "David's palace" in the past year.
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Old 06-10-2008, 11:42 AM   #22
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Wow, any more strawman up your sleeve?
It's not a straw man, it is a non-sequitur. Which you can of course turn into a sequitur via the well established principle of "Ex deo ex machina sequitur quodlibet."

Gerard Stafleu
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Old 06-10-2008, 12:21 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Solitary Man View Post
Wow, any more strawman up your sleeve?
It's not a straw man, it is a non-sequitur. Which you can of course turn into a sequitur via the well established principle of "Ex deo ex machina sequitur quodlibet."

Gerard Stafleu
Yes, it's a non-sequitur, too. Two fallacies in one - you're pretty bad at this logic stuff, huh?
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Old 06-10-2008, 01:10 PM   #24
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Things I love about Google - search on Rihab Christian Church and find some paid ads for Christian rehab - "30 Days at an Affordable $6000 Christ Centered Biblically Based" :rolling:

Anyhow:

BBC
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Other experts say they are cautious about the claim. They want to examine the artefacts and see clear dating evidence. The earliest confirmed examples of churches date from the third century, they say.
It is not clear why the inscription "the 70 beloved by God and Divine" refers to Christians, or why these 70 should be identified as Jesus' disciples, or what they were doing between the time that Jesus told them to go out and preach, and the destruction of the Temple.

Travel notes quotes an AP story:
Quote:
Thomas Parker, a historian at the University of North Carolina-Raleigh, who led the discovery of the church in Aqaba, said that while he hadn't seen the Rihab site, any such claim should be taken with a degree of caution.

«An extraordinary claim like this requires extraordinary evidence,» he said. «We need to see the artifacts and dating evidence to suggest such an occupation in the 1st century A.D.

Parker asked how archeologists could be certain whether the «cave was actually a center of Christian worship.

The archeologist also noted that mosaics are difficult to date unless there is a precise date in the text of the mosaic inscriptions themselves and typical mosaic inscriptions with Christian themes are from the 5th to 6th century.

«It's quite possible that there was a cave with earlier occupation which was later converted to Christian use. But to make the jump that this was actually used by Christians fleeing Jerusalem in the 1st century A.D. seems like a stretch to me,» Parker said....
I wonder why St Geogeous is not listed on the Oldest Churches in the World?
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:41 PM   #25
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I wonder why St Geogeous is not listed on the Oldest Churches in the World?
Maybe it just got consideration for being listed, and added to tour agendas?

:Cheeky:
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:12 PM   #26
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What I'm not sure about is who or what Saint Georgeous was.
Is he the Saint AKA Saint George ?

Andrew Criddle
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:35 PM   #27
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However, I do know that the mosaic is from the 3rd or 4th century, many years before the official recognition of Christianity. There is also a mentioning of Jesus as a God, the lack of a Cross, and the fish in the mosaic- all point to a very early era of Christianity.
http://www.armageddonchurch.com/?An_...Megiddo_prison.

The actual earliest church is a very different beastie than Churches now - no crosses but fish.


Hmmm.


Might the cross have been introduced by Constantine after a certain battle?
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:02 PM   #28
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Another photo posted on a blog. (See also this photo.) The light from above shining down on the archeologists milks this for all it's worth.

A story with another photo involving light.

A photo with a cross in an news story that notes:
Quote:
There is some skepticism within the archeological community about this latest discovery as it claims to be so much older than existing Christian churches.
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:37 PM   #29
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Nice pics! Of course, if I were a photographer, I'd want to get the best photos possible, and those pics did it. Thanks.
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:40 AM   #30
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There is some skepticism [ha-ha] within the archaeological community about this latest discovery as it claims to be so much older than existing Christian churches.
At the risk of provoking another angry response from the SBL crew, I would like to point out that the term "archaeological community," as used in the above statement, seems to imply a distinction between "archaeology" and "biblical archaeology." Or at least it makes more sense if understood as referring to the former.

For what have we seen in biblical archaeology? An entire series of unconvincing, tendentious, sensationalist claims, of which this one is only the latest. There was the "Essene toilet." I vaguely recall the "golden calf." There were the "bedouin" women of the Qumran cemetery. There was the "Yahad ostracon," where words and traces were (on more than one occasion) mysteriously transformed to concoct "physical evidence." There was the "tomb of Jesus" with its illegible scrawl. There was the "world's first" 3-D Qumran film, where the carefully edited reality of "Essene monks" just sprang right out at hundreds of thousands of people... Wasn't there a "Noah's ark" at some point?

Such claims are discussed in earnest, scholarly tones on austere websites like "ANE-2" (the name itself evokes science fiction) and international conferences like ASOR/SBL (where "biblical archaeologists," as I recall, socialize and entertain themselves in the most collegial of manners). Yes, we are expected to give more credence to such claims than to the interpretations of ancient artifacts offered by the author of the "Chariots of the Gods." Ultimately, as if by magic, they make their way into popular discourse, magazine articles, museum exhibits and hundreds of websites, where they are presented as "facts."

Meanwhile, Einstein gets excluded from a list of the world's "great scientists." Dinesh D'Souzy meets biblical archaeology... and "true," heaven-sent science comes into being. Personally, I prefer to regard all such rubbish with "some skepticism."
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