aa5874

The epistles of John is NOT regarded as the ealiest epistles so they cannot be considered as the essence of Christianity.

The claim that God loved people and sacrificed his Only Son is a LATE development in the early Jesus movement.

In the earliest Jesus stories there is ZERO mention of God's love for people. It was the complete opposite. Man MUST first love God, that is, God only loves those who first love him.

Examine Sinaiticus gMark There is virtually NOTHING about God's love for people in the earliest Gospels. In Sinaiticus gMark, the word Love is found only about FOUR times and it relates to the claim that People Must Love God.

It is LATER in gJohn that we see that God SUDDENLY becomes a Lover of people and the word Love is mentioned about 57 times

Sinaiticus gJohn 15 You will NOT see any verse in the earliest Jesus stories like John 3.16. It is clear that God as a LOVER of People because he sacrificed his Son is a Late Invention.

Sinaiticus gJohn 3

James The Least

Part four was essential, but it goes beyond the dead guy. You not only get the dead guy as your best buddy and spiritual advisor, you also get God, holy scriptures, and the Kingdom of God. Basically, you get everything Judaism offers without having to convert to Judaism. Irresistible to a lot of people.

spin

The essence of christianity?

Eau de not so frank incense mixed with the afterburn of an altar wine. The effect is popularly called Brain Damage.

"You lock the door
And throw away the key
There's someone in my head but it's not me."

stephan huller

I really don't know why people like Pete have to define Christianity in entirely negative terms. Surely the majority of Christian converts and Christians in general in antiquity were ATTRACTED to something essential about the tradition. The point if this thread is to determine what that was. I would appreciate if these negative definitions were kept to a minimum. People in early antiquity were not compelled to become Christians so let's try and determine what Christianity was, what the 'myth' of Christianity was - that made the religion so attractive to people.

stephan huller

spin,

Well certainly there is some truth to there being a superstitious undercurrent. Nevertheless I have always been attracted to the writings of Clement of Alexandria. The level of sophistication there is as profound as any neo-Platonic writer of the age (Maximus of Tyre for instance). I am not sure that Clement was 'brain-damaged.'

Moreover I also have to admit - on a personal note - that I am profoundly indebted to Christianity insofar as the work it accomplished developing pure, chaste and ultimately virtuous women. I don't know what pagan model there is for what Goethe called das Ewig-Weibliche. I don't think this occurs naturally.

Whether or not it is a myth that is responsible for this - or delusion as you would say - doesn't really interest me. I think women in particular are only tolerable in long term relationships if they were raised in a convent. Very seriously. Maybe women would say the same thing about religious men. I don't know.

Iskander

Would you go to a brothel to ask what the joy of chastity is?

spin

Sorry, I was just ruminating on the notion of the "essence of christianity". The essence of an old woman I knew was Estee Lauder. I went to a town called Antakya once and everybody seemed to eat lokum, so you could say the essence of the town was rose water. That's why I thought of (not so frank) incense and altar wine as the essence of christianity, which made me think of a similar combination in France called absinth. The result was, well, brain damage. There's a wonderful painting by Cezanne called the Absinth Drinker. He captured the afflicted woman wonderfully.

I wouldna said Clem was brain damaged, unless of course he'd guzzled too much incense and wine... or wormwood and wine.

I was going to say that you've made your bed and now you have to lie in it, but you'd probably be only too willing. So, instead, I'll give you Old Possum (the old tart)'s "sty of contentment, meaning death".

You need Emma Goldman virtue.

stephan huller

Iskander,

The closest I've ever come was being present at a black strip club with a Samaritan arguing over whether Numbers 12:1 really says that Moses's wife was black. I think I was assisted in making my friend see the appropriateness of the suggestion of the Masoretic text (= the wife was black) and that it wasn't entirely at odds with the original reading (= she was beautiful = Samaritan recension).

stephan huller

spin,

on yet another tangent the Samaritans use wormwood as a kind of truth serum - the ancient equivalent of drowning the witch. The practice is referenced in one of the oldest and most widely used hymns of Marqe which is read at the start of every Samaritan gathering. I've cited the material here more than once.

Iskander