gracebkr

Islam is based on a delusion self admitted by Prophet Mohammed. I don't think however the people are delusional. He was. He said he went to cave and stayed there for days and while he was there God spoke to him. He was telling this to his wife with doubt, and she insisted he was being talked to by God. That is the founding of Islam. Do you know the the prayers in Islam Mohammed required all to pray? Anyways, Jesus never existed now according to you? I don't even know how to answer such a ridiculous statement. It's indisputable. You must know that. So, if you answer to Jesus' body is still "missing", which is proof of his miracles. I mean, Jesus was the most important person of the time and still is today. They still have John the Baptist who baptised Jesus. Would they not have Jesus' body too? I hope you also realize there was severe punishment in that time for tampering with the dead. So that argument is also unlikely.

gracebkr

Do you even believe in God?

NeverByte

If Jesus was so important, how come the Gospel writers can't agree on the details?

Mageth

As is clearly indicated below.

On the contrary. It is disputable, and it has been disputed.

On the contrary. Personally, I happen to believe that it is probable that some character existed that gave rise to the myth/legend that we now refer to as "Jesus". But note the "probable". There is some level of doubt about this, and serious arguments have been presented as to a mythical Jesus. As there is (or should be) some level of doubt about just about everything. Thus, the "thinking person" would not or should not "know" that it's "indisputable" that Jesus existed.

How can one argue against such logic? Sorry, I was being facetious.

Here's the deal: The fact that Jesus' body isn't on display somewhere proves absolutely nothing - other than we don't happen to have Jesus' body. That's it. It certainly does not prove his alleged miracles.

Another thing presented as indisputable fact?

They do? Where?

Why would they? And so what if they don't? And who is this mysterious "they", anyway? You're not making much sense here.

Where do you dig up these factoids?

You have yet to present anything approaching a "likely argument". Baseless assertions, for the most part.

gracebkr

Except, the Disciples were there, (the people of today were not) they left Jesus when he was crucified, except for Mary Magdelene. Then after Jesus died for no reason what so ever these same Disciples who rejected him, decide to risk their lives to preach about Christianity with no reason other then an elaborate lie to deceive the world? Psychologically, this is nonsense. Maybe one could be crazy, but all of them, I highly doubt it. A person would have to be crazy to die for what they know is a lie, completely fabricated.

So I hope I have unwrapped the mystery of my statements for you. The Muslims today, believe, as I do in something else, so we are not delusional in any way. But in the time of Jesus, the Disciples who followed Jesus and preached about him after he died, which was putting their lives in great jeopardy, did it anyways because of their experience. Psychologically, they would have had to experience something very real because people will not make up an elaborate lie, risking their lives for that lie, ultimately dying for most of them because of that lie. None of them backed down, even when faced with death, the same men who abandoned Jesus when he died. Maybe one could be crazy, but not all. Improbable.

And the V Tech killer did not "believe" in Jesus. I am quite sure he was a Muslim. FYI, Muslims recognize Jesus as a prophet. So by believe, if you mean he thought Jesus was the Messiah, I don't think so. "Ismail" says it all, we (Christians and Jews) would not spell it that way and the "ax" also means something in Islam. Him speaking of Jesus just him referencing a prophet in his religion.

Mageth

Many people today find justification for belief, whether Moslem, Christian, Jew, etc. Why would or should the disciples be considered any differently?

In other words, people find all sorts of reasons to believe incredible things. One does not have to assume the disciples "knew" as fact the things they believed.

I have no doubt that many people in the 1st century believed. But that clearly does not establish the truth behind their belief.

Sorry, you lose on that argument.

OldYgg

Prove Jesus existed, historically. You say that it is indisputable, but clearly that is incorrect.

Old Ygg

Mageth

Verily, verily I say unto you: Jimmy Hoffa is the true Son of God!

OldYgg

You are referring to people that are just words on paper and could be fictional. Shall we argue about the existence of characters in a Stephen King novel? Some of them are quite details and it might be hard to believe that they aren't real people. Most of them (even the poorest 2 dimensional characters) are more fleshed out than the characters in the bible listed as disciples.

You see it really doesn't matter if there were 1, 12 of 100,000 people listed in the bible as disciples. They are fictional people, written in books many years after any allegedly real events occurred. Even bible scholars who are believers agree that the bible was written not only by many people but that there are internal inconsistencies in the bibles, not to mention differences in language and translation.

Many people have died for their gods previous to Christianity. Yet, plainly we do not believe those gods to exist today. Going by your logic, that people are willing to die for your god, even those so-called disciples of his, as proof of god's existence or Jesus is false reasoning. unless, you are willing to admit that those other gods existed.

Hmmm, so the V-tech killer is a moslem, and chooses to reference Jesus, but not mention Allah, or Mohommed at all. Nope, sorry. Incorrecto. He mentions Jesus because that is what he believes in important.

Old Ygg

OldYgg

Ah Hah! I knew it. He's from New Jersey isn't he. One of the local boys done good. Maybe this is why all the movies and media make fun of New Jersey. Or maybe he's just buried here.

Old Ygg