BadBadBad

For me, I believed in God when I was a small child. Then I got older and started to get confronted by children of fire breathing fundies who assured me that believing wasn't enough. I had to be born again. I had to open my heart up to Jesus. I needed to have a personal relationship and walk with Jesus and be saved. Praise the Lord HALLELUJAH!
!.

So I went home and tried it. Said my prayers at night. I prayed to God. I opened my heart up to Jesus. What was it like? Nothing. Nothing at all. Just me talking to my self. Felt kind of silly. I did wake up born again though. Born to a new life of freedom from this lunacy called Christianity. Felt pretty good. My second cousin, the fundie freak kid, is a 40 year old drug addict rotting in jail right now for dealing. I wonder what it's like for him?

mike T.W.

brettc,
I fail to see how a religious fervor relates to the case of a woman who was clearly mentally ill. We are talking about a "feeling" or fervor, not acting upon "guessed signs from God".

Furthermore, I would never harm anyone by looking to what I would think as signs from God - infact, this is a totally different kind of thing. I cannot even relate my fervor to what you are saying.

Leah

I think it is the trust in a guiding/protecting superiority, as well as a positive attitute to life, where one trusts that everything happens for a purpose.
The desire to live a pure and good life, to serve humankind, and the faith that this is being rewarded within ones life or a life to come.
"To feel god or christ" can just as well stand for the feeling of contentness and for the inner peace one has made with oneself.
To be greatful towards someone/-thing for the things one has and to remain humble regardless all achievements and material gains, since there is this faith that without the guiding light, and the blessing of this superiority one would have achived and gained nothing.

People who truly believe to "feel the lord" or to "hold the lord within" often appear to me as if they had found balance, are humble and goodhearted, they want to help and serve, and trust this will return to them.
But not many people who claim to feel the lord, actually do feel him.
And that was one of the many reasons, I came to find that what is being translated as "feeling a diety" , might just be a humble and positive attitute to life, with the desire of balance of all.

mike T.W.

Leah, [edit: insult deleted] There is a genuine feeling of religious fervor I have had and do have. Sometimes it is when I have faith that I have this, there can sometimes be other things or similar fervor but not quite the same. I will not confuse this with the actual Holy Spirit in which people do claim a supernatural presence.

Also, it is probably the most common experience amongst believers, to claim this "feeling". I think the good thing here at this forum, is that unbelievers can empathize with this genuine fervor because they too, in the past - have felt this faith "feeling"/fervor and so they know that believers aren't lying. I just wish they were more open-minded when we say of other things happening, and also if they could apply this open-mindedness to the possibility of God in their minds - then that would be great.

P.S. I also think this feeling is probably explainable as a religious experience and/or fervor, atleast with me anyway.

Leah

You know, I felt more guidence since I have left the faith in a god as such.
And somehow, "having faith as much as a mustard seed" might just stand for "faith in oneself" and in the idea then in the end "everything returns".

mike T.W.

With process of time, faith can be tested - and fail. However, remember the unjust judge? If God then, suffering us a long time, him being God, how much more will he avenge us? He will avenge us speedily.

I disagree about faith in oneself though - for what can I do? I am but a man.
I do think that if your faith is intact then perhaps it never went away, through process of time our minds can change, but remember - God suffers us a long time, therefore, time makes our minds become bored, and eventually our minds change, and we decide that God no longer exists because we cannot have things how we exactly want them. After that verse in the Gospel He goes on to say shall I find any faith concerning His return.

Ellis14

You are correct that if you faith stays intact, it will never go away. Such is the power of faith. Unfortunately, if everyone's faith stays intact, all the millions of religions are perpetuated, each claiming they are right and the others are wrong. So keeping faith intact in not necessarily a good thing since it keeps Muslims and all other theists believe in their God and not yours. If faith is simply a holding-force to tie one to a religion then it is so shallow and dubious it can hardly be considered a virtue.

This leaves one to believe not just on faith alone, but evidence. And if the evidence is lacking and you don't have faith, curiously enough there is no reason left to believe!

You are incorrect that our minds become bored and we cannot have things the way we want so we decide that God doesn't exist. You will struggle to find an atheist who deconverted because he got bored with the idea of God. Many of us are atheists because we couldn't accept the irrationalities of believing on faith alone and required evidence. As I said above, if the evidence is lacking, so if the belief.

mike T.W.

No, belief is not necessarily anything to do with evidence. " Blessed is he that believes, even though he has not seen ".


Well, ofcourse, faith is not just a holding force. Faith is a trust and a trust put into action also, aswell as belief. If a muslim has faith in God I do not see it as a bad thing. In a similar way, if Einstein believed in God but not a personal one, I do not see it as a bad thing. - They are just irrelevant opinion though.

Infact, I am not too worried about converting people, and I am not too worried about evidence. Evidence and requiring it, is not what I call belief nor basis for it.

If your faith does stay intact, then I am confident you still believe in God, that is the only reason I suggested it, because sometimes people return to God after a period of dorment faith. You can't have faith in God and not believe in him, sorry - but if because you have de-converted and empathize with the fervor, that doesn't mean you can still keep the feeling and deny God, you are deceiving yourself. you cannot have faith and not believe, faith is not the fervor, but the fervor comes from it.

Ace

So basically, it's feeling a "meaning for life," content with the world, etc. I gather.

From that, I'd think that there is no absolute way that someone can say that it is a specific deity at all (even if at all).

And thus, Jesus/Mohammed/etc. don't actually say anything directly to the believers...

Hmmm, I'm disappointed.

Religious debates often focus on Bible inconsistencies, philosophical questions on morality, life, etc. and science, but what always got to me is that even if the Bible were internally consistent, and everything about a particular religion (let's just say Christianity in this example) looks right, as in it actually could work, how does that change anything?

If Jesus or any other deity that the religion purports as god doesn't actually interact with a believer, and a believer has to "reason" that this good feeling is god, there's no reason to think one religion is any more correct than the others (assuming they all seem reasonably internally consistent).

Does the Bible say Jesus interacts this way with his followers? Any other religions?

Thanks for all the replies, BTW. This has been very facinating to read because I've always wondered what I've been "missing," but I realize now I feel the same way, but I find it through a different way.

Leah

To "feel the lord" one needs to have faith in him, right?
Now, faith equals complete trust and respect , which are also the basis for love .
Since I can neither trust nor respect the god of the bible, I can neither have faith in such nor love such.

Faith in onself, though, is a lot easier, since one can trust but onself, can live a life enabeling to respect oneself and love oneself.
I have the same faith in my children and in nature and in a few human beings.

But we should never give up seeking for ones, be it human beings or ideologies, that one can have faith in, that I do agree on.