TySixtus

I just read this in another thread, and rather than pull off a tangent, I'm hoping Chili will come on over here and explain this...

Please, explain this. First, tell me what your definition of 'Christian' is. Then tell me how Catholics don't fit in. I was born and raised RC. Now do you mean that YOU don't CONSIDER them to be Christian? That requires explanation, too.

And you don't sin, as a Christian?

Eagerly awaiting some responses to this, from the Catholics as well as Christians.

Ty


Edited to add "Where's Albert on this one?!"

Edited again to add "I just asked for Albert!?!"

jdlongmire

It is indeed a red letter day...

I, too, would be interested in an explanation of the OP...

WCH

"Catholics are not Christians" is something I'm very used to hearing from my friends. The main reasons behind it are the (seemingly) excessive respect towards Mary (most protestants consider it idolatry), and the numerous extra-biblical concepts such as Purgatory, Limbo and the Papacy which are so central to Catholicism. However, so long as you believe that Jesus was the Messiah, that he atoned for your sins and is now waiting for you in heaven, you're a Christian. The rest is all filler.

Never heard that you're not Christians because you sin, though... that's just stupid. I would say instead that chili is not a Christian because he's a hypocrite, and you have that post to prove it.

Paul taught to confess your sins publically, and that we're all sinful is very important in Biblical theology. Anyone who says otherwise must have not read it very carefully...

Chili

But Chili never claimed to be a Christian so he cannot be a hipocrite. I barely claim to be a Catholic (seldom go to Church and if I do it is mainly to please my wife or just to 'be' together).

I always held that I was not a theologian (unlike Albert) but that I try to explain the philosophy behind Catholicism (and I never ask anybody to believe what I write).

1Jn.3:9 clearly states that a Christian cannot sin because he is set free from the law and therefore cannot sin. In other words, no law = no sin, and for this you only have to be reminded that the laws were given to Moses to convict man of sin. So, it is clear that Christians cannot sin and those who admid their own sin are just wannebe Christians.

Or else go to Galations 5 where we are advised not to take the yoke of slavery upon ourselves a second time. Then he goes on to say that those who have been set free and seek their justification in the law have been severed from Christ and fallen from Gods favor (read it twice if you have to but that is what it means).

Chili

A Christian cannot sin (see above in my previous post). Let me add here that sin is a human concept and is religion specific (we also have "Catholic only" sins).

I hold that religion is a means to the end and when the end is reached religion will have served its purpose. In Catholicism this is when we enter Purgatory and from there we are on our own. If this is true Purgatory can begin when we are alive on this earth and if it is possible to enter Purgatory it must also be possible to complete Purgatory (in 42 months) and enter heaven by means of completion while in Purgatory. This would certainly make religion a means to the end for there are no Churches in the New Jerusalem!

Now let's go back to my defintion of Purgatory and I will explain that in a way that everybody will understand.

I hold that when we are born again we "enter the race" and from there must work out our own salvation. This is common knowledge and we all know how some people can have a religious experience and/or make a conscious decision to follow Christ (I mean this is the whole spiel behind Billy Graham and co).

When Catholics have such an experience it is upon the will of God because Catholics do not evangelize nor do they play hokus pokus tricks on the faithfull in effort to 'awaken the spirit within' (also common knowledge).

The difference between awakening by God and by any other means is addressed in Jn.1:13 and it is based on this difference that Catholics are able to complete the race and work out their own salvation . . . which will be outside the Catholics church because they do not appreciate "charismatics" stirring up their own crowd during mass (no tongues, prophetic messages or anything like that is allowed).

I would be extremely happy not to be called Christian if 'to be Christian' meant that I was torn in the saved sinner paradox and would have to die before anything good would happen to me. That would be like hell on earth, would it not? ie. to know Christ but to remain distant from God because of that great divide in our own mind has got to be hell on earth (because heaven on earth is when that great divide is atoned in the convergence of the twian when "the father and I become one."

doubtingthomas

I think some concepts mentioned above can be traced back to some of the extra books in the Catholic Bible, which are not found in the Protestant Bible. For instance, the concept of purgatory comes, if I remember correctly, is infered from a passage in the book 2nd Maccabees which speaks of praying for the dead.

MzNeko

Heh, I've suspected for a while that the "Catholics are not Christians" position was held because Protestants wanted to differentiate themselves from Catholics, but "Protestantism" was too hard to spell...

reprise

Locked for review until we consult with the admins. GRD is not the appropriate forum in which to post flame-bait. If you have a genuine question relating to the belief systems of people, religious or not, then post it here in rational and civil terms. If you are not capable of arguing your viewpoint politely in GRD in particular, then perhaps the IIDB is not the most appropriate venue in which to express those viewpoints.

reprise

I'm sorry that this thread has remained closed for so long. I closed it the other night when I was extremely tired because I was concerned that it would rapidly turn sour, and I forgot to start an MCR thread letting the other GRD mods know what I'd done and why. Once again, my apologies for my stuff-up - both the "pre-emptive" moderation and the thread remaining closed for so long.

Biff the unclean

I sometimes question Protestant sanity.
They had the Bible but they decided to edit out sections and entire books of both the NT and the OT. Then they complain that the Catholics believe things that aren't in the Bible and that they, the Protestants, have a Bible based belief.
The Catholics don't have any "extra" books. The Prods have the Readers Digest condensed version.

They throw out whole books and the books they have left they say should not be taken literally. Doesn't sound like people who believe in the Bible to me.
:huh: