Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Darklighter · 01-28-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr. Gottisttot

I'd publish. My personal beliefs should not influence what information I release.

Ditto. Although I'm a new atheist, I would absolutely publish. The quest for the truth is more important than my personal beliefs. I would love to see proof of Adam and Eve, The Flood, The Tower of Babel, The 10 Plagues, The Exodus, Solomons Wealth, Fulfilled Prophecy, Jesus, God, etc... because if I had proof of all that then it would be reasonable to conclude that all the barbaric things done in the OT had to be done in order for righteous justice to be carried out and thus I could have faith in God's overall goodness.

But alas... we have none.

Observation: I see no one voted against. Hm. My fundie brand told me that atheists are selfish and dishonest.

jeremyp · 01-28-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers!

The comment given about 50% for/against Jews was correct. I have not met many Jews in my career and had not asked any of them the question. I should have been clearer with the meaning of those figures as well as noting that I had no pagan or muslim data either.

[My emphasis]

Are you saying that you actually had no data for Jews, or that you asked two of them and one said no?

mountainman · 01-28-2008, 02:42 PM

Hey Tigers!

Although I just voted (OTHER - YES)
I would still run a few hours research
past the Tel Aviv Police Department
to gauge the opinion of Oded Golan
before publication.

Best wishes,

Pete Brown

Julian · 01-28-2008, 05:14 PM

Facts are facts, and reality is what it is. My liking or disliking it is entirely irrelevant. Information is good and more information is better, only liars or fanatics need secrecy.

Julian
Atheist for.

P.S. Not a single vote against. Why am I not surprised...?

NZSkep · 01-28-2008, 05:19 PM

So when you want to find out if christains would publish something that goes against their beliefs what do you ask them? Clearly this scnerio is unnaceptable for that question.

ApostateAbe · 01-28-2008, 06:50 PM

Wow, 59 atheists and agnostics for yes, 0 for no. I would have expected that a few would answer no by accident or something. We must be controlled by some hive mind.

Johnny Skeptic · 01-28-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigers

Imagine you are the boss of an archaelogical dig in the Valley of the Kings in Egypt. One day is found in a tomb a carving that gives an Egyption account of the Israeli exodus from Egypt. While the carving does not mention the peoples' name it notes their leader spoke Egyptian well and was obviously familar with Egyption life & culture. He insisted that these people must be released or great disasters would fall upon the land of Egypt. It also mentions terrible calamites that befell Egypt which line up with what the OT describes including the death of all 1st born of Egypt. Pharoah says go but changes his mind and sends out an army. The army never returns, except for a few stragglers who describe a large wave that washed away the army but missed those people.

You have on your team agnostics, atheists, a Jew but no Christians. Do you publish? Yes or No? The discussion was vigorous.

I ask this because I have used this scenario for > 20 years now as a straw poll for people's willingness to publish information that might upset their cherished beliefs. My sample size has been rather small so I am opening it to all of you.

My results have been as follows
Agnostics - For: 20%
Against: 80%
Atheists - For: 50%
Against: 50%
Jews - For: 50%
Against: 50%
Christians - For: 99%
Against: 1%

I have no figures for pagans or Muslims as yet.

Some explantions. The 1% Christian against was from a fellow who thought that the fuss was not worth the effort. I have great admiration for the atheists would are prepared to publish. When I asked some agnostics why they would not publish they replied that that would force them to take sides and they prefered not to do that.

I am wondering if the results from you all will follow the trends I have noticed or will vary.

So what say you? Publish or not? Please give reasons for your answer if you wish.

That seems to be similar to an older thread that you started at http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=197296. I recently discredited that thread in a new thread at the GRD Forum at http://iidb.infidels.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=235405. My new thread also discredits your attempts to bait skeptics in this thread since you said that your "beliefs (as a theist) will be consistent no matter what the atheists/agnostics promise or claim." Regarding this thread that you started at the BC&H Forum, what would you say if an agnostic used your own argument against you and said "my beliefs (as an agnostic) will be consistent no matter what new archaeological evidence said?"

If another supposed God showed up and took over control of the earth, would you accept him? If so, if he left the earth and another supposed God showed up and took control of the earth, would you accept him? If you would not be willing to accept new evidence, it does not make any sense for you to be concerned with "people's willingness to publish information that might upset their cherished beliefs" since you said that your "beliefs (as a theist) will be consistent no matter what the atheists/agnostics promise or claim."

My answer to your question is "Yes, if Christians would want to publish the evidence if it helped to discredit Christianity."

Agemegos · 01-28-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NZSkep

furether to my previous post, you say this is a streaw poll to see how likely people are to publish info that goes against their beliefs. If so, why are you asking christians? Surely this info serves to reinforce their beliefs if anything?

The same is true of Jews and Muslims.

Agemegos · 01-28-2008, 07:51 PM

By the way, why is "theist" a separate category from "Muslim"? Or from "Pagan", for that matter?

Agemegos · 01-28-2008, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solitary Man

Such a thing though would have drastic consequences for Biblical studies.

Only for the study of Exodus. It wouldn't affect New Testament studies at all.

Quote:

It would really turn the world on its head.

On the contrary, most people would never hear about it. And those who heard would either conclude that it conformed what they believed anyway or that it didn't prove anything important.

View Poll Results: Would you publish? Yes or No?
Theist for	4	4.76%
Theist against	0	0%
Agnostic for	8	9.52%
Agnostic against	0	0%
Atheist for	69	82.14%
Atheist against	0	0%
Muslim for	1	1.19%
Muslim against	0	0%
Pagan for	1	1.19%
Pagan against	0	0%
Other for	1	1.19%
Other against	0	0%
Voters: 84. You may not vote on this poll

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01-28-2008, 02:42 PM	#43
mountainman Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Falls Creek, Oz. Posts: 11,192	Hey Tigers! Although I just voted (OTHER - YES) I would still run a few hours research past the Tel Aviv Police Department to gauge the opinion of Oded Golan before publication. Best wishes, Pete Brown

01-28-2008, 05:14 PM	#44
Julian Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Washington, DC (formerly Denmark) Posts: 3,789	Facts are facts, and reality is what it is. My liking or disliking it is entirely irrelevant. Information is good and more information is better, only liars or fanatics need secrecy. Julian Atheist for. P.S. Not a single vote against. Why am I not surprised...?

01-28-2008, 05:19 PM	#45
NZSkep Contributor Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: auckland nz Posts: 18,090	So when you want to find out if christains would publish something that goes against their beliefs what do you ask them? Clearly this scnerio is unnaceptable for that question.

01-28-2008, 06:50 PM	#46
ApostateAbe Contributor Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: MT Posts: 10,656	Wow, 59 atheists and agnostics for yes, 0 for no. I would have expected that a few would answer no by accident or something. We must be controlled by some hive mind.

01-28-2008, 07:51 PM	#49
Agemegos Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: 152° 50' 15" E by 31° 5' 17" S Posts: 2,916	By the way, why is "theist" a separate category from "Muslim"? Or from "Pagan", for that matter?

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