Patriot7

I'm interested in YOUR answer. At the sametime, I respect your right to not address a question you're not comfortable with.

I believe them, because I think it's more reasonble to believe they are reliable then not. This idea that we have to have bombproof certainty of all of our beliefs is just mindboggling to me. I would say I am 70% certain that the bible is the Word of God.

To be completely honest cognac, I didn't come to Christ by way of reading the Bible. I don't think the Bible is "proof" in the way that you're suggesting, for the existence of God. How did the first century Christians become Christians?

Patriot7

What claims does TBOM make that you believe corespond to reality?

Kosh

70%? That may be a passing grade in school, but you are going to be in deep doo doo with St. Peter when he looks in his book! Pack your asbestos suit.

Jedi Mind Trick

Patriot7,
Can I call you Pat?
I hope you dont think you're having an intellectual spar with the bad ole atheists? It doesnt appear that way from the ten volumes so far.
Anyway, it's ten pages now... give it up already.

Here I'll give you one of these :notworthy: for the effort.

Diogenes the Cynic

That's not an answer, it's just a reiteration of belief. You think it's "reasonable to believe they're reliable" WHY? based on what evidence.
I don't think anyone has asked you for "bombproof" evidence, just for any evidence at all. You haven't presented anything except that you believe it, therefore you believe it.
Based on what evidence?
How did you come to it then?
What IS proof for the existence of God?
The same way the first Mormons became Mormons.

Diogenes the Cynic

What claim do the Gospels make that correspond to reality?

There is actually better evidence for the LDS origin beliefs than for Christian origins. We can confirm that Joseph Smith existed. There are first hand accounts. There are also eight eyewitnesses for the Golden Plates that Joseph Smith received from an angel. That's eight more than we have for the Resurrection.

John Kesler

I found a link to an "IIDB" thread that Holding/Turkel participated in.

Odemus

So then you deny a god who knew the history of the world before it ever happened? A god who set the plan of salvation in motion to unfold in the exact manner it did in order to redeem his followers?

Go ahead, amuse me with the same mental gymnastics I used to perform.


That's right, the first man fell, the rest are to blame as well. All with god's foreknowledge. All those kids starving in third world nations and around the world throughout human history are guilty of being born because Adam ate an apple. What a benevolent god. Let's all bow down and grovel.


It brings closure and it's cathartic.

RGD

No, they are not. They bear an unfortunate (and we will hope coincidental) resemblance to those of David from Texas.

They share the same basic characteristics:

Inability to read and comprehend posts made to him.

Inability to keep to a single topic.

Rampant evasion and disingenous statements.

Strawmen, question-begging, evasion, circular arguments, and logical fallacies galore!

That's the problem I have:

Isn't there a single, intelligent theist ANYWHERE OUT THERE!? (Except for Pim, of course).

All we get are the same, stale, irrational, boring non-arguments, and inability to hold a coherent discussion.

[/rant]

Yahzi

I realize this is a fast-moving thread, but I really think the following issue is important.

Now, your response was that CNN movie reviewers don't count; but this is clearly inadequate. Your original comment to TomboyMom was that CNN as a news organization was unaware that the NT did not contain eye-witness accounts; so finding a quote from CNN as a news organization disproves your claim. If the guys at CNN wanted to break the story, they don't need TomboyMom to tell them about it; they can just ask their own employees.

How do you account for the fact that you made a claim, were factually disproved, and yet refused to retract the claim or admit your error?