wala

Adam/ Eve's sin and the torture of Jesus/God = Atonement


God created A&E beings knowing from the start that they would not
please him. And when they would not please him, he knew he would have
to arrange to have the humans torture and kill him/God in the form of
Jesus so that he could forgive them for being the way he created them
to be and the way he knew they would be from the beginning. And he
knew, at the beginning, that if people did not accept that he would do
something so utterly ridiculous, he would have to cast them into hell
where they would weep and gnash their teeth in a lake of fire forever.
All this to please his own fragile ego, apparently.


This is the most ridiculous concept I have ever been asked to accept,
and I don't accept it. I cannot accept that an all knowing, all
perfect, all good God would be such a sadistic idiot. Apparently
Christians can.


God sacrificed himself to himself to satisfy his anger and human beings
for being exactly the way he created them to be and for being exactly
the way he knew they would be from the beginnning of time. And yet God
now threatens to torture people for eternity if they don't believe that
he is stupid enough to do something like this.


It constantly amazes me that Christians can pretend that this makes
some kind of sense.





Bumper Sticker


DIVINE INSANITY
God killed himself on the cross to save his own creation fro�*m his own
wrath ! (Author unknown)

Crucifiction

One would question the omnipotence {and sanity} of a God that had to let himself be killed in order to correct his own mistake. Why was the "shedding of blood" necessary? Why not just snap his fingers and say "Ok, here you go, believe in me and you're all saved"? In fact, why is belief even necessary in order to be "pure in the eyes of God"? I'd think that living a holy, decent life would be far more important than faith.

jdlongmire

I don't have a lot of time this morning, but JD's take:

The death of Christ on the cross was a living analogy for the effects of MAN's Sin on Creation and our eternal soul and the requirements of God to atone for the stain of Sin on the eternal spirit.

Christ suffered horribly as Man in the flesh and mind, but the true suffering occured when Christ as God and Man, suffered seperation from the Godhead to atone for the effect of Sin on Man's eternal spirit.

This was the ultimate sacrifice and atonement.

Christ was atoning for Man's mistake through Free Will, not God's graciousness in allowing Free Will.

Man killed Christ from Original Sin to death on the Cross. The amazing thing is-Christ allowed it.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


-JD

Crucifiction

Umm... why?

That, seriously, makes no sense; in the same way that a Catholic ritual makes no sense-- it's purely symbolic, and there's absolutely no need for it to exist. Instead of wasting however many decades he was on Earth while men still died and went to Hell, why not just snap his fingers up above and "atone" for the sins of man?

jdlongmire

Faith - what Adam and Eve did not have.

.............................

Matthew 13

10The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?�?

11He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand. 14In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. 15For this people's heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ 16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

ManM

Not all Christians subscribe to the satisfaction theory of the atonement. To put it in a historical perspective, this particular theory is the work of Anselm, roughly 1000 years after the death of Christ.

J-D

He should have just created it stain-resistant in the first place.

Asha'man

Are you honestly trying to sell us the idea that two wrongs do make a right

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

Eldarion Lathria

Or was it god atoning for his sins against mankind?

Eldarion Lathria

seebs

FWIW, this is why many Christians don't accept the speculation that Jesus saves us through substitutionary atonement.