Viti

Well, you seem to be telling him that your way is the best way and I have seen no effort to try to gear your advice towards his stated goals. Each couple has it's own dynamic. Brave Sir Robin dearly loves his wife and thinks she is a wonderful person, he obviously has no desire to hurt her by handling this in a way he thinks might cause her pain, and he doesn't want to leave her over this issue.

And your fear of a spouse "turning on you" is rather telling. Have you witnessed such an occurance?



Of course, but a physical body with no mind is not much of a person...just a human bag of tissue. I was speaking about who a person is and you know it.

Goliath

Please either point out where I said exactly that or retract your accusation.

Agreed.

In person? No, but that would be because I only know one atheist/theist couple, and they haven't been married for long. If you mean not in person, then yes, I have. Just ask Vicar Philip or brettc.

Oh, so you know what I'm thinking? You must be another Great Prognosticator, like seebs!

Anyways, aren't we forgetting about experiences? Those are an important part of a person's psyche as well. Also, people generally don't have one belief, whence hating xianity is not hating every belief that they have, whence hating xianity does not imply hating the xian.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Viti

It wasn't an accusation, I said "it seems". I apologize, I should have said "It seems to me"

Yes, Vicar and brett have bad situations, however there are many more people on this board married to Christians and their relationships are strong and respectful. Ask Rufus Atticus or crazyfingers perhaps.

Well if you think I meant a persons physical body wasn't a part of what they are, then you are being purposefully obtuse and contrary.

Yes, but I include that in THOUGHTS which I mentioned in addition to beliefs. An experince can't exist by itself, unprocessed by thought or emotion.

That is correct, and I did not say otherwise. However, since you would divorce your wife for that ONE belief out of many, you don't seem to be able to separate it as much as you claim.

Goliath

Apology accepted.

I never said otherwise, and I fail to see your point in this tangent.

Actually, no I wasn't. Since you cannot read my mind, my statements about my thoughts trump your whiny assertions about my intentions each and every single time.

This is probably true, yes. Your point being....?

I did not say that. Edit: I see how my "turn" remark could have been misconstrued. My apologies.

I might or might not divorce her for that one belief alone. A lot of it would depend on whether or not she can respect my right to be an atheist.


Sincerely,

Goliath

Viti

You are angry and defensive and impossible to have a fruitful discussion with. Where does that rage come from?

You said:the fact that a spouse could convert and turn on me at any time is something that's kept me very weary about the idea of getting married.

Then when I asked why you said to ask Vicar and brett. I was simply giving counterexamples. Sheesh, are all mathematicians unable to have nuanced discussions?

I said:Perhaps you would happily get divorced if your wife felt that you disprespected a big part of what makes her who she is, but most people wouldn't.

You said: I most certainly would, yes

Good grief. Fine, I am a wacko who thinks what a person is doesn't include their body, because I didn't specifically state it. Have you ever been tested for Asperger's syndrome? You are very difficult to talk to.

Once again, I assumed experiences in the word "thoughts" and you made a point of the fact that I didn't type the word "experiences".

you said: Anyways, aren't we forgetting about experiences? Those are an important part of a person's psyche as well.

I said: Yes, but I include that in THOUGHTS which I mentioned in addition to beliefs. An experince can't exist by itself, unprocessed by thought or emotion.

I was expanding and explaining my original statement based on your comment.

Geesh, can we discuss ideas without this back and forth? This is so confusing and the actual ideas are being lost in this crazy semantics game. If not than I am done with this conversation.

Goliath

What rage? What are you talking about?

Perhaps we should lay this to rest before continuing this discussion.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Viti

Your rage against Christianity. Maybe you don't see it, but everyone else does. You mention regularly your belief that people hate and despise you, and how much you hate Christianity, you frequently get defensive. I just wonder where that comes from.

Goliath

I don't really rage against xianity as much as I hate it.

No, I mention my observations that people in this forum seem to hate and despise me. There are many people that are able to get along with me irl.

However, the path that we're treading isn't a new one for me in the world of text-based communication. It's odd...in face-to-face conversation, straightforwardness and honesty is usually appreciated. But when things are written down, people so easily read into things...if we were to have this conversation face-to-face, I doubt you'd accuse me of being angry and defensive, as I wouldn't be displaying the slightest hint of anger in my voice or body language.

One of my pet peeves is when people refuse to read something that's written, instead reading what they want to read. I'm kinda kooky that way.

Much of my hatred for xianity comes from my past (as you'd probably expect).

As to why people always read into what I write and see me as this angry person that I'm not irl...I have no idea. Every time I've bothered to ask someone about it, they give forth the usual predictable reaction of blowing up in my face... *sigh*


Sincerely,

Goliath

Goliath

As to your second to last post in this thread, all of the things worth responding to have been dealt with in the edit to my last post in the conversation at hand.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Viti

Understood, I equate hate with anger and rage.

Well, I don't hate or despise you, I don't know you, but your posting style is very terse and gruff and open to intepretation as your being a hateful person.

I will concede it is possible that these are misinterpretations. I have found if I seem to be getting the same reaction from a number of different people, and that they are miscontruing me, it is due to the way I am expressing myself and I will try to change my style a bit. Perhaps you can benefit from this exercise?

And I doubt you would require me to voice each and every specific thought as you would be able to pick up on non verbal cues and nuances. Maybe we simply have a vastly different communications style that can be overcome with concentration. Perhaps not. I am willing to try if you are.

And I am the opposite, I am bothered when people can't read the spirit of the message or idea I am trying to get across, can't read between the lines, and instead choose a specifically literal reading. You are a mathematician and rely on very detailed and literal imparting of information, I am a customer relations professional and rely on intuition and nuance. Again, different ways of communicating and interacting. Maybe there is no middle ground.

Yes, and I am sorry if you were abused or hurt by beliefs. I hope you realize not all Christians are fundies, that some are very liberal and respectful of ideas and beliefs they may not share.

Well, I hope we can discuss this. I do not wish to blow up in your face. I do think your writing style sounds angry. I am willing to discuss it with you if you wish to maybe understand each other better.