Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 01-17-2011, 11:15 AM

In one of those strange intersections of the Bible and current events, we learned that one of the influences on the Arizona shooter Jared Loughner was the conspiracy film "Zeitgeist" which has been the subject of commentary here (mostly negative.)

The Religion Dispatched blog has published Zeitgeist A Blend Of Skepticism, Metaphysical Spirituality, and Conspiracy by Michael J. Altman that might be of interest.

Quote:

Zeitgeist is not new in its arguments about Christianity. While various apologists have sought to counter the arguments, I am more interested in locating them. Zeitgeist's theory that religion originates in sun-worship echoes many early scholars of comparative religion, such as Max Müeller, who believed the sun or some other astral body or natural object engendered notions of the gods. Indeed, in America, arguments about Christianity's origins in sun-worship go all the way back to the founders. Thomas Paine, whose quote appears in the film, argued in "An Essay on the Origin of Free-Masonry" that Christianity and Masonry both "derived from the worship of the sun. The difference between their origin is, that the Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the sun, in which they put a man whom they call Christ, in the place of the sun, and pay him the same adoration which was originally paid to the sun." Paine also argued that churches were means of political power in his "Age of Reason." A long line of American skeptics from Paine to Mark Twain to Sam Harris have seen conspiracies for power where others have seen Christian piety. Zeitgeist draws on this skeptical tradition but blends it with a conspiratorial paranoia.

The film offers a detailed step-by-step comparison between Jesus and various sun-worshiping cults of the ancient world. Comparing Jesus to the Egyptian god Horus, the film outlines how Jesus was a mythic figure derived from pagan sun worship. He was part of a long line of mythic figures including Attis, Krishna, Dionysus, and Mithra. They were all born of virgins, the film alleges, and also experienced death and resurrection. Their myths are not stories about what actually happened but, rather, they reflect the movement of astrological bodies—Jesus represents the sun, Sirius is the star in the east, and the stars in Orion's belt are the three kings of the nativity. Jesus, in short, was just the latest in a long line of astral myths that use the movement of the stars as a source of mythic inspiration. Similarly, Moses is just another in a long line of law givers that includes Manu of India, Minos of Greece, and Mises of Egpyt. (See, they even all start with M, the film points out, suggesting a mysterious connection.) Similarly, the Ten Commandments are a derivative version of passages from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. For Zeitgeist, there's nothing new under the sun-worshipers. The Bible is an "Astrotheological Literary Hybrid."

At the conclusion of Part I of Zeitgeist, Christianity is rendered as a political myth born in the minds of ancients staring at the sky, raised up by the Romans to control their empire, and put to work as a functional myth by modern ruling elites in need of a force to control the masses. ...

ApostateAbe · 01-17-2011, 12:16 PM

Loughner really does look a lot like one of us. It is a tough thing to say, but Loughner is a lot like me, only he took such personality qualities to a deranged extreme. He may not even be clinically insane--he became just a helluva lot more of a "freethinker" than the rest of us are brave enough to turn into. I have held that being a freethinker or a critical thinker is not the same as being a believer in the most probable truths, but only someone who tends to pay the most attention to and promote (if not believe) the hard-hitting criticisms of the established philosophies and traditions. Of course, the online film Zeitgeist satisfies that tendency of thinking the most.

premjan · 01-17-2011, 12:18 PM

Not everyone is emotionally equipped to deal on their own with angst.

No Robots · 01-17-2011, 12:27 PM

American Spectator article on this subject.

manwithdream · 01-17-2011, 12:50 PM

This might sound bad, but this could be great for the people who made it because there is no such thing as bad publicity. People will be curious about it and probably check it out.

ApostateAbe · 01-17-2011, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manwithdream

This might sound bad, but this could be great for the people who made it because there is no such thing as bad publicity. People will be curious about it and probably check it out.

I think you are right. It will not be so good for atheists. Zeitgeist and Loughner are on course to become a symbol of all that is wrong with atheism.

Yellum Notnef · 01-17-2011, 01:02 PM

And just think about all of the poor souls being steered away from the truth that Jesus was a genius Jew. Oh dear.

Toto · 01-17-2011, 01:05 PM

The producer of Zeitgeist, Peter Joseph, has posted a statement on Facebook (the site for serious news?) and has threatened to sue the mainstream media.

Yellum Notnef · 01-17-2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

The producer of Zeitgeist, Peter Joseph, has posted a statement on Facebook (the site for serious news?) and has threatened to sue the mainstream media.

Of course it's for serious news. It's what Sarah Palin uses.

Toto · 01-17-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellum Notnef

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

The producer of Zeitgeist, Peter Joseph, has posted a statement on Facebook (the site for serious news?) and has threatened to sue the mainstream media.

Of course it's for serious news. It's what Sarah Palin uses.

He and Sarah Palin seem to have the same opinion of the Mainstream Media.

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01-17-2011, 12:16 PM	#2
ApostateAbe Contributor Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: MT Posts: 10,656	Loughner really does look a lot like one of us. It is a tough thing to say, but Loughner is a lot like me, only he took such personality qualities to a deranged extreme. He may not even be clinically insane--he became just a helluva lot more of a "freethinker" than the rest of us are brave enough to turn into. I have held that being a freethinker or a critical thinker is not the same as being a believer in the most probable truths, but only someone who tends to pay the most attention to and promote (if not believe) the hard-hitting criticisms of the established philosophies and traditions. Of course, the online film Zeitgeist satisfies that tendency of thinking the most.

01-17-2011, 12:18 PM	#3
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	Not everyone is emotionally equipped to deal on their own with angst.

01-17-2011, 12:27 PM	#4
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	American Spectator article on this subject.

01-17-2011, 12:50 PM	#5
manwithdream Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: united states Posts: 156	This might sound bad, but this could be great for the people who made it because there is no such thing as bad publicity. People will be curious about it and probably check it out.

01-17-2011, 01:02 PM	#7
Yellum Notnef Banned Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Gone Posts: 4,676	And just think about all of the poor souls being steered away from the truth that Jesus was a genius Jew. Oh dear.

01-17-2011, 01:05 PM	#8
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	The producer of Zeitgeist, Peter Joseph, has posted a statement on Facebook (the site for serious news?) and has threatened to sue the mainstream media.

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