Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Amaleq13 · 09-12-2007, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy5

I am trying to put them in a corner which is why I'm asking what I've been asking.

You cannot put someone in a corner when they rely on circular reasoning.*

*pat pending - if I see this on a t-shirt, I better get paid!!!!

Lugubert · 09-13-2007, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-D

In the story of Isaac we have the motif of human sacrifice.
In the story of Jesus we have the motif of human sacrifice.
(Not noteworthy, given the commonness of human sacrifice in real life, and as a motif in stories.)

And there's this little detail that Mr. Josephson is supposed to be not entirely human.

Quote:

In the story of Isaac, Abraham is willing to sacrifice his only son.
In the story of Jesus, God is (apparently) willing to sacrifice his only son.
(Well, we already had the fact that these were two 'human sacrifice' stories. The 'only son' element--if we accept Isaac as in some sense an only son, ignoring the problems with this--is more specific, but I still don't think it's very noteworthy. So far as the element of willingness goes, I think the parallel is not that close: the Isaac story emphasises the willingness of the father rather than the son, the Jesus story emphasises the willingness of the son rather than the father.)

A huge difference is that we cannot suppose that the supposed Abraham was supposed to know that Isaac would be resurrected after a few days. An omniscient God would know that his "sacrifice" would be very, very, temporary.

Quote:

So what have we got? Two stories about a father's willlingness (but see caveat above) to sacrifice his only son as if he were a sacrificial (non-human) animal. Given the commonness of human sacrifice in fact and story, I don't think that's very striking. The only genuinely independent parallel detail is the bit about carrying the wood, and that's not enough to impress me. I can swallow the possibility of that much coincidence. After all, carrying wood is also a common human activity. And the fact that one sacrifice really is carried through and the other really isn't is, to me, a striking disanalogy.

andy5 · 09-13-2007, 06:44 AM

Alright well thank you all very much. I am fine now, no need to worry about me. Consider these frequent bouts part of the deprogramming process for me.

J-D · 09-13-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy5

Alright well thank you all very much. I am fine now, no need to worry about me. Consider these frequent bouts part of the deprogramming process for me.

That's OK. Glad to be of service. Hope the process goes well for you.

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09-13-2007, 06:44 AM	#123
andy5 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: South Posts: 31	Alright well thank you all very much. I am fine now, no need to worry about me. Consider these frequent bouts part of the deprogramming process for me.

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