Mageth

Yep...anything to avoid cognitive dissonance.

Passing over the Abraham and Isaac story, address this little bit:

Exodus 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
Leviticus 20:9 If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

Now, that Law is supposedly part of the Law passed down by YHWH to Moses. That YHWH is, at least in theory, the same God as one finds in the NT. So, at least in theory, the Christian God has commanded people to kill children.

So, from the Bible, when viewed as a whole, it appears that the God described therein is capable of commanding people to kill their chidren.

From that, if, as the OP asked, God (and you knew it was God) commanded you to kill (a child, or anyone else), would you or would you not obey?

That's really a straightforward question - but one that's met with a lot of obfuscation by theists when asked.

Mageth

Was or was not Jesus a Hebrew? And did or did not Jesus refer to the Hebrew scriptures, including the Law which includes what I mentioned above? If he did refer to the Law, what did he say about it?

I'm really amused by attempts of some Christians to distance themselves from YHWH.

Darklighter

Yep. Thats right along the same lines as the point I'm trying to make. The scriptures you quote are great examples:

Quote:

Exodus 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. Leviticus 20:9 If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.

It didn't happen very often, but I'm pretty sure I've told both of my parents at some point that "I hate them" or at least something of the sort. Yet, NOW that I'm a bit older, I realize that they're the best parents a kid could hope to have. I have a great relationship with them (although they'll be devestated when I break the news that I can no longer believe in god :frown: ), and even though I wasn't that bad, I really wish I could take back some of the things I said, and some of the rebellious things I did as a teenager. But I'd probably be dead if I lived 3,000 years ago.

Mageth

And I got the same sort of obfuscation, dodging, and "separation" from the OT God YHWH that you're getting in response to your OP.

It's really a straightforward question:

If God (and you knew it was God) commanded you to kill (a child, or anyone else), would you or would you not obey?

Chances are neither you nor I will receive a straightforward answer.

Darklighter

Thats why a non-literal, liberal interpretation of the Bible makes EVEN LESS SENSE than a fundamental, literal interpretation.

Darklighter

Just so it doesn't get lost in the fray, I'd like bring back to the front something I posted above in response to Robert Byers, in relation to the 'divine she-bears kill 42 children' issue:

Again, Abraham was not the issue. But if you can't see what's wrong with your other arguement, I'm sorry. How many children do REALLY DUMB things, and then seriously regret them as adults? Dare I say, all of them? I know I have. Why does society not allow children to drive untill they're 16? Why is a 12 year old not allowed to have sex with a 30 year old? Why is the legal drinking age 21? Why is there a difference between being tried as a minor and being tried as an adult? Because (aside from other developmental issues) 99.9% of children don't have the maturity to MAKE CONSISTENTLY GOOD DECISIONS!!! If society recognizes this, why doesn't God?

Now please address the other issue I raised: What sin did the infants commit who died in the genocide at the hands of the Israelites by God's command? And describe to me how this fits in with god's love.

WishboneDawn

I'm not sure why straightforward answers are expected when straightforward answers are met with dismissals like, "Yep...anything to avoid cognitive dissonance".

Mageth

Oh, and a few NT scriptures for those so anxious to shed the OT YHWH:

Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I [am] the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let [him] go.

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.

Sounds like the NT references the OT YHWH quite a bit.

And I find this rather interesting:

In light of:

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.

Mageth

I have seen no straightforward answers to the essential questions raised on this thread - only obfuscations, dodges, and attempts to distance oneself from a God that would do the things the OT YHWH is alleged to have done.

Darklighter

Where was there a straightforward answer? I havn't seen one yet. If you're referring to the post made by Malachi151, it was completely off-topic and addressed none of the issues I raised. Please re-give the 'straightforward answer' in your own words so that I may understand what you mean.