Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MachineGod · 04-25-2004, 06:29 PM

Genesis 6:2 - That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

Genesis 6:4 - There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Job 1:6 - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 3:1 - Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

Revelation 12:4 - And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Vinnie · 04-25-2004, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glass*Soul

Is the debate on this board? May I have a link?

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=79512

Vinnie · 04-25-2004, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glass*Soul

Vinnie: Three of your answers to the questions regarding the flood, when taken rogether, are giving me problems.

If your purpose is to argue that the flood was not as intense as was suggested, your argument that the highest mountain ranges on earth were possibly being heaved up at the same time creates another problem. How do we figure the severity of the earthquakes and ensuing tsunamis that would result? (Can anyone here answer this for me?) Instead of a gentle, shallow flood that might allow for the survival of delicate coral reefs, I am now attempting to imagine a worldwide catastrophe beyond comprehension.

I noticed this last night myself. Just switch it to "maybe the mountains were created at the destruction of the tower of Babel" When god spread humans he also may have "sread the land" (what atheist scientists want to attribute to plate tectonics).

Glass*Soul · 04-26-2004, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinnie

I noticed this last night myself. Just switch it to "maybe the mountains were created at the destruction of the tower of Babel" When god spread humans he also may have "sread the land" (what atheist scientists want to attribute to plate tectonics).

Whew. I feel better now.

shunyadragon · 04-26-2004, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoretical Bull

My first post ever. Hap-py-birth-day-to-me-hap-py-birth-day-to-me...

I signed up because I figured this is probably one of the best places to run my ideas and writing past other critically thinking people, and see what kind of challenges, feedback, and help I can get.

I often debate with an old friend of mine who happens to be a YEC. Most recently she told me that everything in the Genesis creation account is scientifcally sound, and that's what she bases her Christian beliefs on: Science and reason. She said that were I able to point out one scientific impossibility in Genesis, she'd promise to sincerely question her beliefs.

Getting to the point, this post is probably more ego-driven than anything else. I sent her the following thirty-one questions, and she never got back to me. Ever. Basically, I'm annoyed, and I don't want those questions to go unheard, unchallenged, and without feedback.

So here, I offer them up to you guys. The following is my letter to her. (Feel free to skip the whole introduction and move on to the questions. I left it in because I thought it was interesting and tended to give a little background.)

Have at it . . .

Take care of yourself, and I hope to hear from you soon. Thanks for making me have to think.

With respect and affection,

Your favorite Heathen.

[So there you go. Questions? Comments? Complaints? Our technicians are standing by.

-Scotty

Well done. I am a Geologist. I have debated these issues for a number of years. The folks at AIG mave responded to these arguements and more. There responses are indeed foolish and inadequate, but people of faith still accept the, because the provision of AIG and others is that you must or the foundation od Christianity collapses into a pragmatic shitzo mess, which it does, but no one is willing to admit it.

I am interested in her response.

Go with the flow the river knows.

Frank

GermanHeretic · 04-26-2004, 03:14 AM

As pointed out by others, you won't reach a creationist with reasoning, logic, or calculations.

Pull out out the contradictions between Genesis 1 and 2:

a) Gen 1: animals were created before humans -- Gen 2: Adam was created, then animals, then Eve

b) God's attitude towards his creation: Gen 1 everything is esteemed to be good after each creation step -- Gen 2 God is not satisfied with his creation and creates other stuff to better it

GermanHeretic · 04-26-2004, 04:40 AM

As pointed out by others, you won't reach a creationist with reasoning, logic, or calculations.

Pull out out the contradictions between Genesis 1 and 2:

a) Gen 1: animals were created before humans -- Gen 2: Adam was created, then animals, then Eve

b) God's attitude towards his creation: Gen 1 everything is esteemed to be good after each creation step -- Gen 2 God is not satisfied with his creation and creates other stuff to better it

Sven · 04-26-2004, 04:40 AM

Two points:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoretical Bull

Why aren't lion skeletons lying next to Woolly Mammoths?

I'm not sure what's your point exactly here. If you think this would be impossible because of time, you would be wrong (mammoths lived up to about 30 000 years ago, and lions already existed then). If you think this would be impossible because of different habitats: There were lions living near to mammoths in this time. Not exactly the lions we know today, but very similar ones.

Second point: I hope you realize that Vinnie isn't serious with his answers (at least with some of them) but only tries to answer them like a typical YEC. The few posts I've read of him so far (including the debate with RobertLW) make clear that generally he's a very reasonable person who knows well how to argue without the fallacies found in the posts of his opponents

Jayhawker Soule · 04-26-2004, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MachineGod

Genesis 6:2 - ...
Genesis 6:4 - ...
Job 1:6 - ...
John 1:12 - ...
John 3:1 - ...
Revelation 12:4 - ...

That's very nice. You may also find Enoch interesting. Now, would you mind answering my questions?

MachineGod · 04-26-2004, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConsequentAtheist

That's very nice. You may also find Enoch interesting. Now, would you mind answering my questions?

I have offered some of my answers to your questions on Genisis in the 4th post above the one you quoted.

I will try to give more of how I see things, when I can find more time to do so.
I got a busy life dude...gimme some time.

04-26-2004, 03:14 AM	#26
GermanHeretic Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 224	I like to use 'biblical proof' As pointed out by others, you won't reach a creationist with reasoning, logic, or calculations. Pull out out the contradictions between Genesis 1 and 2: a) Gen 1: animals were created before humans -- Gen 2: Adam was created, then animals, then Eve b) God's attitude towards his creation: Gen 1 everything is esteemed to be good after each creation step -- Gen 2 God is not satisfied with his creation and creates other stuff to better it

04-26-2004, 04:40 AM	#27
GermanHeretic Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 224	nothing new in here - was submitted twice by error As pointed out by others, you won't reach a creationist with reasoning, logic, or calculations. Pull out out the contradictions between Genesis 1 and 2: a) Gen 1: animals were created before humans -- Gen 2: Adam was created, then animals, then Eve b) God's attitude towards his creation: Gen 1 everything is esteemed to be good after each creation step -- Gen 2 God is not satisfied with his creation and creates other stuff to better it

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04-25-2004, 06:29 PM	#21
MachineGod Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: The USA Posts: 164	Genesis 6:2 - That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. Genesis 6:4 - There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Job 1:6 - Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 3:1 - Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Revelation 12:4 - And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

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