Freethought & Rationalism Archive

premjan · 11-21-2010, 06:38 AM

I would say that Israel could have been created but that some subsequent events should have been coordinated better with other nations of the world. Unfortunately the plan for Israel and the execution were handled by rather different groups of people.

Chili · 11-21-2010, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

[Obviously the coming Kingdom is literal. Perhaps Jesus cryptic statement means that those without the Spirit within them will not be able to observe the coming of the Kingdom...hence the warning that His coming will come like a thief in the night upon those who are not saved.

Ever thought that your eyes are only half opened if you still see darkness in the world? (I suspect the dove just shit on you and did not find a home in your self serving mind, oh right, you and all of those who think like you).

Chili · 11-21-2010, 07:11 AM

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Originally Posted by sugarhitman

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Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

And there is this one;

Seems to indicate that he believed The Kingdom was then present, and was accesable within them that believed.

Obviously the coming Kingdom is literal. Perhaps Jesus cryptic statement means that those without the Spirit within them will not be able to observe the coming of the Kingdom...hence the warning that His coming will come like a thief in the night upon those who are not saved.

Quote:

It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building.

29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulphur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed.

. . . and a proper reading of all those passages will show how wrong you really are but there is no telling a 'rich man' how wrong he really is, who even warped his own bible to fit his purpose and discarded the truth in doing so.

Ever thought that revealed means disclosed instead of arrived?

Chili · 11-21-2010, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

I would say that Israel could have been created but that some subsequent events should have been coordinated better with other nations of the world. Unfortunately the plan for Israel and the execution were handled by rather different groups of people.

Israel is 'created' in the essence of the word itself: the name 'Is-ra-el means one-with-God' and is formed when that happens in the mind of man. To go out and assign a piece of land to it is to act like the pharisees here:

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Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation,

21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you.

premjan · 11-21-2010, 08:02 AM

That's the religious take on it, however to Jews who suffered living as diaspora, it was probably less metaphorical than that.

Chili · 11-21-2010, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by premjan

That's the religious take on it, however to Jews who suffered living as diaspora, it was probably less metaphorical than that.

Yes but what is the difference between Israel without borders wherein Judaism is the effective demonimation or Christendom without borders where Catholicism is the effective demonination? The only thing I can see is the self proclaimed Christians who think that they have a right to speak as perverts, thoughout the ages, I must add.

sugarhitman · 11-21-2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarhitman

Obviously the coming Kingdom is literal. Perhaps Jesus cryptic statement means that those without the Spirit within them will not be able to observe the coming of the Kingdom...hence the warning that His coming will come like a thief in the night upon those who are not saved.

. . . and a proper reading of all those passages will show how wrong you really are but there is no telling a 'rich man' how wrong he really is, who even warped his own bible to fit his purpose and discarded the truth in doing so.

Ever thought that revealed means disclosed instead of arrived?

It means Jesus will be revealed when he returns from Heaven.

Quote:

So when they met together, they asked him, Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel? He said to them: It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority....After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight....They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. Men of Galilee, they said, why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.

Literally Mr. Chili...Literally.

Californian · 11-21-2010, 11:27 AM

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So when they met together, they asked him, Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel? He said to them: It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority....After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight....They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. Men of Galilee, they said, why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.

Source?
Book, Chapter, and Verse, please.

sugarhitman · 11-21-2010, 11:31 AM

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Originally Posted by Californian

Quote:

So when they met together, they asked him, Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel? He said to them: It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority....After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight....They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. Men of Galilee, they said, why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.

Source?
Book, Chapter, and Verse, please.

Acts 1: 6, 9-11.

Gorit Maqueda · 11-21-2010, 12:00 PM

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Originally Posted by Godwithus

How critics have missed the word "until" in there is beyond me.

If we are going to make arguments based on a single word, perhaps we should ask ourselves if the author really intended to use that word with that exact "English" meaning.

I don't know NT Greek. But here is, for instance, NIV's translation:

Quote:

Originally Posted by NIV

And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

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11-21-2010, 06:38 AM	#91
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	I would say that Israel could have been created but that some subsequent events should have been coordinated better with other nations of the world. Unfortunately the plan for Israel and the execution were handled by rather different groups of people.

11-21-2010, 08:02 AM	#95
premjan Obsessed Contributor Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 61,538	That's the religious take on it, however to Jews who suffered living as diaspora, it was probably less metaphorical than that.

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