show_no_mercy

Do deists actually posit a god that is possible to be proven? Or do they simply say "there's a god that set everything in motion, but he's impossible to reveal"?

NearNihil Experience

My neighbor used to call himself a deist. He was of the "watchmaker" opinion that we can't deny the watch(universe), so we can't deny a maker. How ever, noone looking out from the watch can see the wrist its strapped to, the watch was meant to be read by the maker or wearer,not viceversa.

So, its not agnostic in that it claims knowledge of some sort. I forget why this is in general bad logic,but its something about categorical switching, or backlog evidencing...something unjustifiable when held up to scrutiny...maybe confirmation bias...

So I don't think deists are agnostic...they seem to be the 17 century equivalent of IDers.

mikey1987

i would call Deism a happy midpoint between Atheism and Theism.

not to suggest deism is correct because it is a compromise, however.

Deists dont bother me the slightest bit - they dont enforce thier morals on you and they can still be open to ANY scientific evidence.

i wold see deism as observation the greatness of the universe and attributing it to the unknown - God. its fine with me if you want to attribute everything to someone who may or may not be there.

but it is not agnostic though.

Duncan Abercrombie

Deism is simply a belief in God (usually singular) without revelatory claims. Many liberal (ie non-fundamentalist) churches seem to have creeds which are essentially a modified version of deism, so categorizing this belief with agnosticism is inaccurate.

ArchAngel

Well, here is a deist to answer. I do not believe that it is possible to prove that God exists but despite this I still believe that there is a god. Also, I am open to the fact that I could be wrong and that God does not exist.

Arctish

I call myself an agnostic deist. I believe that it is impossible to know anything about the existence and nature of gods without a god-like knowledge of godhood. I am atheist WRT gods such as the christian one and every other god I have heard about.

I use the deist term to describe myself simply as a matter of convenience. Regarding the origin of the universe I believe "In the beginning something changed". That change began the process by which all things came into existence - the Big Bang, stellar evolution, biological evolution, etc. It does not matter at all if the change was deliberately caused by some being or entity, if it was the result of a natural process or force, or if it was a random event without a cause. I do not believe I will ever really know what caused the universe to exist but I do think it is important to try to figure it out.

To answer your question "Is Deism an agnostic position?" I believe they are different positions.

Duncan Abercrombie

Gemma,

I don't think you can be both. Agnostics believe that ultimate knowledge (or God) is unknown and unknowable with our current understanding of the origins of the Universe and existence. Agnostics allow the possibility that there there might be a God (or Gods), but knowledge of such matters is impossible as things stand. Deists believe in God without belief in revelatory religion.

From your other comments your beliefs seem simply to be agnosticism so I don't see the need to qualify 'agnostic' with 'deist'. Of course, you can label yourself anything you like but the two terms are mutually contradictory. :wave:


D

Arctish

I understand what you're saying, Duncan. The two terms -agnostic and deist-do not fit comfortably together. Perhaps it is a simple case of cognitive dissonance but I really am an agnostic and a deist.

I think my human comprehension cannot encompass all possible gods so I cannot and will never be able to say with certainty whether or not any of them actually exist.

I am certain that none of the gods I have heard about exist since their presence and influence would be detectable.

Whenever I read posts from Calvinist stating that humans are "fallen" and no longer the pure holy beings that god created, my response is that we are exactly as our creator made us: human, mortal, fallible, and a natural part of life on Earth. It does not matter to me whether the creator is a being, a force, or a random event. It does not matter to me whether our creation was deliberate or happenstance. I think we can attribute our existence to something that can rightfully be called our creator, whatever our creator is/was.


Perhaps one day I will have smoothed out all of the rough edges in my worldview. As it stands now I have a creator tinged agnosticism and I use the term "agnostic deist" to describe it. I don't really see it as a problem.