sotto voce

Already spoken of. All that one needs to do to marry, Christian or not, is consummate. With the patriarchs, there was a matter of camels to see to, as dowry. But camels are really not essential.

Where there is ritual, Christ is absent. Where there is officialdom, Christ flees. Each saint is a royal priest, possessing the mind of Christ, by whom all things were created.

la70119

Thanks for the old information, stephan. It really is an eye-opener.

Carried-over Judaism. It's more like plaigarized Judaism, and badly plaigarized at that. And they think it's Christianity. Of course, the Jews know better.

stephan huller

And should it be granted that the affections specified above, when produced rationally, are good, yet they are nevertheless inadmissible in the case of the perfect man, who is incapable of exercising courage: for neither does he meet what inspires fear, as he regards none of the things that occur in life as to be dreaded; nor can aught dislodge him from this -- the love he has towards God. Nor does he need cheerfulness of mind; for he does not fall into pain, being persuaded that all things happen well. Nor is he angry; for there is nothing to move him to anger, seeing he ever loves God, and is entirely turned towards Him alone, and therefore hates none of God's creatures. No more does he envy; for nothing is wanting to him, that is requisite to assimilation, in order that he may be excellent and good. Nor does he consequently love any one with this common affection (οὐδὲ ἄρα φιλεῖ τινα τὴν κοινὴν ταύτην φιλίαν), but loves the Creator in the creatures (ἀλλ' ἀγαπᾷ τὸν κτίστην διὰ τῶν κτισμάτων). Nor, consequently, does he fall into any desire and eagerness; nor does he want, as far as respects his soul, aught appertaining to others, now that he associates through love with the Beloved One, to whom he is allied by free choice, and by the habit which results from training, approaches closer to Him, and is blessed through the abundance of good things. So that on these accounts he is compelled to become like his Teacher in impassibility. For the Word of God is intellectual, according as the image of mind is seen 'in man alone. Thus also the good man is godlike in form and semblance as respects his soul. [6.9]

stephan huller

I think I am going to write my next book on this topic. I don't think people realize how stupid the argument for the sanctity of heterosexual marriage is. Why aren't the Catholic priests married if Catholic marriage is holy? They keep saying things like 'civil unions are what's proper for same sex couples.' The reality is that heterosexual marriage was so beneath Christian virtue that it was left for the civil authorities. If had a time machine back to the first and second centuries we'd see a man entering a sanctified celibate union with another man and the heterosexual Christians running to the ancient equivalent of the little white chapel in Vegas!

stephan huller

The first part of this reference is known to Irenaeus (AH 5) - i.e. the 30, 60 and 100 - showing for the 1,000,000 time that Clement was part of a community deemed heretical by Irenaeus:

stephan huller

The cause of these, then, is love, of all science the most sacred and most sovereign. For by the service of what is best and most exalted, which is characterized by unity, it renders the Gnostic at once friend and son, having in truth grown "a perfect man, up to the measure of full stature." Further, agreement in the same thing is consent. But what is the same is one. And friendship is consummated in likeness (ἥ τε φιλία δι' ὁμοιότητος περαίνεται); the community lying in oneness. The Gnostic, consequently, in virtue of being a lover of the one true God, is the really perfect man and friend of God, and is placed in the rank of son. For these are names of nobility and knowledge, and perfection in the contemplation of God; which crowning step of advancement the gnostic soul receives, when it has become quite pure, reckoned worthy to behold everlastingly God Almighty, "face," it is said, "to face." For having become wholly spiritual, and having in the spiritual Church gone to what is of kindred nature, it abides in the rest of God.

sotto voce

Surely, nobody can ask why anything is holy of the people who brought us Crusades, Inquisitions, interdicts, armadas, censorship, institutional abuses and now institutionalised paederasty?

RC priests are unmarried because of their political role in dominating their congregations, particularly in less developed countries.

If marriage is not respected, there can be no point to it at all. One might as well sleep around.

What matters is children. The right of children to one male parent and one female parent seems to be unimportant.

stephan huller

Interestingly philoteti can be used in a sexual sense:

in Hom., freq. of sexual love or intercourse, in various phrases: “μίγη φιλότητι καὶ εὐνῇ” Il.6.25, cf. 3.445, al.; “ἵνα μισγεαι ἐν φ.” 2.232; καθεύδετον ἐν φ., παραλέξομαι ἐν φ., Od.8.313, Il.14.237; ὕπνῳ καὶ φ. δαμείς ib.353, cf. 207, 13.636: less freq. c. gen., “ἀείδειν ἀμφ᾽ Ἄρεος φιλότητος ἐϋστεφάνου τ᾽ Ἀφροδίτης” Od.8.267; “φ. γυναικός” Hes. Sc.31, cf. Th.374,405,625,822: pl., Pi.P.9.39, N.8.1, Antipho Soph. 49.

Clement avoids using philia when describing Empedocles's system even though this is the term that is used in his writings. Is this because Clement was worried about the Christian use of philia reinforcing stereotypes about the Christian 'brotherhood'?

la70119

Why do you think the RCC is the same institution that Clement of Alexandria belonged to? You SAW stephan's quote of Irenaeus basically calling Clement's community a bunch o' HERETICS, didn't you?

Gee, heterosexual marriage doesn't stop protestant evangelical ministers from dominating THEIR congregations, usually megachurches in shoppingmall churchbuildings.

And exactly HOW is denying same-sex marriage dissing marriage? HOW!?

In the Proposition 8 Trial proceedings it's been revealed that children do just as well in two-parent households of one sex as they do in the typical opposite-sex two-parent households. What REALLY harms children are single parent households, where the other parent just left, or there never was a second parent in the first place.

And children have NOTHING to do with marriage, unless you want to just come out and say that the purpose of marriage is having kids. Is that so? In that case let's just get RID of marriage, for we have far too many people on this planet already!

la70119

well there were the urban legends of the dog tied to the lamp, the piece of meat thrown past the dog, the extinguishing of the lamp, and the indiscriminate intercourse which got "upgraded" to incest because Christians called each other brothers and sisters.