makerowner

Did George Washington chop down that cherry tree? Probably not. Does his being a real person mean that every story told about him is true? No. Likewise, Pontius Pilate could very easily have been a real person, with a fictional story told about him in the gospels.

arnoldo

That fictional story could have been very easily proven to be false by Romans who wanted to prevent a religious sect from spreading. In contrast we have a Roman Historians that states that a trial between Pilate and Yeshua was historical fact. In the 2nd century the Roman historian Tacticus (Annals, 15.44) reference both the emperor Nero, Pontius Pilate, Tiberius and a certain person he calls Christus

makerowner

There's a whole thread about this; you can discuss it there if you want.

aa5874

Yeshua is not mentioned at all in the passage. Your statement is in error and appear to be misleading.

aa5874

Or, you can't prove that someone didn't exist, all you can say is that the evidence for their existence does not appear to be credible.

No Robots

Come, come. Tacitus calls him "Christus," which is the title by which he was generally known.

schilling.klaus

the urban legends of Christians persecuted under Nero is of course older.
In any case there were no persecutions of Christians before 4th century.
Many references to persecutions are to be understood metaphysically,
not historically as rightwingers try to force you to believe.

Nero and Tiberius may or may not be historical, that's of no relevance
for the history of Christianity.

Klaus Schilling

mountainman

Somewhere between the fourth and the fifteenth century
an interpolator added the last reference to Tacitus in an
effort to stave off the consistent exploration of the very
real possibility that the person called Christus J was an
invented Saviour-Healer, promoted by Constantine, to
explicitly compete with, and destroy, the extant Saviour-
Healer network of cults, centered around Asclepius/ Imhotep.

The new god was Big Business because He was Tax-Exempt.
The new god was New Testament Technology, because the
Boss mastered literature control and burnt the Opposition.
The Boss built the new god new BASILICAS.
He destroyed the ancient temples.
He executed the head priests.
He set clear examples.
He prohibited sacrifice in the old temples.
The people were trapped by a despot.
He milked them dry.

And it was this in this despotic political environment
that future objective scholars, who see both sides of
the moebius papyri of the fourth century, will identify
the authorship of the non canonical acts.

Syriac Acts of Philip: Is Philip annoying? - Fourth Century Humour at its best
TAOPATTA: The Acts of Peter and the (11, 12 or was it 13?) Apostles
The Acts of Andrew and Matthew: Casting lots for world dominion.
The Acts of Peter and Andrew - Aggressive wizards, camels, needles.
The Acts of Thomas: Judas refuses Jesus' commands; Jesus sells him into slavery
The Act of Peter: Peter forgets to heal his own daughter.

If you want to understand these above six non-canonical acts,
put yourself in the shoes of the ancient Hellenic culture which
has been penned in in their cities by savage taxation backed by
total and absolute military supremacy. The sword was not an option.

Thus the pen was unsheathed.
These texts are anti-christian polemic.
They were written by anti-christian parodists.
As a last resort to raise their voices against the
supreme top-down-emperor cult which had made
them homeless, pushing thousands, and later
tens of thousands of the eastern Hellenic therapeutae
out into the recluses and monasteries established
from the times the persecutions started c.324 CE,
by the ascetic Pachomius, and others, in Egypt.

Pachomius is thought related to the Nag Hammadi
codices. In the next century, translating the coptic
to Latin, (was it) Jerome or Augustine, that made
him "christian" whereas in fact he was an ascetic.



Best wishes,


Pete Brown

arnoldo

So you can basically just revise history to prove your argument. I guess the Romans never built colosieums and had gladiators fight each other, animals, slaves,etc?

mountainman

An inscription to Marcus Aurelius Prosenes who died in 217 CE
is thought by "christian new testament historians" to
be best explained in terms of christianity ** -
and thus to be an example of a known christian in the 3rd CE.

He was the manager of the Roman Imperial
Gladiatorial Games under Commodus.

Now Marcus Aurelius Prosenes surely existed.
But was he a "christian"?
I dont think so.


***
"welcomed before God"
(receptus ad deum) on March 3, 217,
an expression which may best
be explained in terms of Christianity.
(ICUR VI 17246; cf. Mazzoleni 1999: 153).






Best wishes,


Pete Brown