Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Follower of Christ · 11-23-2004, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by little

Evidence that you are here to preach and convert? If you don’t desire to have your assertions challenged then why post here?

there is a difference in challenging my point and one of you all judy blowing out hot air to sound smart.

If you want to debate with a legitimate arguement, I will.
If you want to do what previous post did and blow worthless air.....Im not interested.

And believe me friend....I dont preach and I dont ''convert''.
You dont want Christ...thats your decision....the dust was shaken from my feet a long time ago.

As I said, challenge me with a REAL arguement and we'll talk,
But Im not into wasting my day answering crap arguements simply for your amusement.

Proxima Centauri · 11-23-2004, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.Shack

The idea of your Christian God :angel: doesn’t make sense. You admit it. Why doesn’t your omnipotent and omni benevolent God snap His (non-existent?) fingers and end evil?
Why does He create those who he in His omniscience knows will suffer eternally in hell? That looks more like sadism than love. :huh:
Philip Kuchar developed this further.
Double-talk in Defense of the Dubious: God's "Respect" and "Forgiveness"
We can all see Christianity is illogical. :devil3:

My post above was a real argument. If you can't see that you're
blind. :huh:

JEST2ASK · 11-23-2004, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Follower of Christ

Jesus was talking to Jews for the most part.
Paul was dealing more with the gentile church.

I see compassion for the lost, salvation, love for your neighbor and just about all the core teachings in both men.

Only differnce I see in Paul is clarifying things that Jesus' recorded words may have been vague on.

For instance, with what we have recorded of Jesus, there is no real explaination of the internal struggle the believe has with sin...no explaination of the duel nature. Paul tried to explain it.

Jesus made some comments about the elect, but didnt really detail it out much.
In Romans, Paul spells it out as best I think he could.

Also Jesus was teaching the Jews for the most part.
He spoke a lot in parables that werent meant for enlightenment to them.
I think in order to understand the differences in Jesus and Paul, the first thing one has to do is see who their audience is...and then understand the desired outcome of their ministry.

Jesus came to the Jew to be rejected, it had to work that way.
Paul was just teaching sound doctrine to the church that was given to Him thru revelation.

anyway...if you first study out what each mans goal was, and who he was talking to..it helps in understanding the seeming differences

How do we discover who each man (Jesus -> Jesus Christ -->Saul --> Paul) was other than Paul's own claims (this includes Luke's references) what do we know of him .. what was his motivation .. where do we find the details of any record of either man's existence other than the Bible ... are we to disregard the accepted writtings within the Bible where the message of Jesus disagrees with the conclusions written by Paul .. inquiring minds (well at least this one) want to know .. on what authority you state Paul explains what cannot be found in the direct words attributed to Jesus

JEST2ASK · 11-23-2004, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Follower of Christ

And believe me friend....I dont preach and I dont ''convert''.
You dont want Christ...thats your decision....the dust was shaken from my feet a long time ago.

Does this mean :wave: .... Gone so soon and we hardly knew you ....

Follower of Christ · 11-23-2004, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.Shack

The idea of your Christian God :angel: doesn’t make sense. You admit it. Why doesn’t your omnipotent and omni benevolent God snap His (non-existent?) fingers and end evil?
Why does He create those who he in His omniscience knows will suffer eternally in hell? That looks more like sadism than love. :huh:
Philip Kuchar developed this further.
Double-talk in Defense of the Dubious: God's "Respect" and "Forgiveness"
We can all see Christianity is illogical. :devil3:

Now see Little......THIS is a legitimate point.

Post #6 wasnt worth the response.

No, lots of it dont make sense to me.

Why do it this way?
Why not just make it simple to begin with?
Why all the covenants when He could have just made us in Heaven since He knows the outcome anyway?

The only thing I can conclude then is that this is all for our benefit.
He surely doesnt need the rehearsal here, so it has to be for us.

I cant tell you ''why''. I dont know Gods mind.
But then, I know you dont believe and are simply humoring me anyway.

Follower of Christ · 11-23-2004, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEST2ASK

Does this mean :wave: .... Gone so soon and we hardly knew you ....

Hardly

I just dont believe in pushing my faith on anyone.
If you dont want it, so be it.
If you did, Ive a feeling you would contact me thru PM where we could talk freely.

Personally I like hanging out atheists and blasphemers....all the absurd things they say make me study more :thumbs:

Proxima Centauri · 11-23-2004, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Follower of Christ

Now see Little......THIS is a legitimate point.
No, lots of it dont make sense to me.

Why do it this way?
Why not just make it simple to begin with?
Why all the covenants when He could have just made us in Heaven since He knows the outcome anyway?

The only thing I can conclude then is that this is all for our benefit.
He surely doesnt need the rehearsal here, so it has to be for us.

I cant tell you ''why''. I dont know Gods mind.
But then, I know you dont believe and are simply humoring me anyway.

God's alleged mind doesn't make any sense. Its not reasonable to conclude that hell is all for our benefit. Its more reasonable to say God doesn't exist. :devil3:
All the absurd things you say make us study more. :Cheeky:

Follower of Christ · 11-23-2004, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEST2ASK

How do we discover who each man (Jesus -> Jesus Christ -->Saul --> Paul) was other than Paul's own claims (this includes Luke's references) what do we know of him .. what was his motivation .. where do we find the details of any record of either man's existence other than the Bible ... are we to disregard the accepted writtings within the Bible where the message of Jesus disagrees with the conclusions written by Paul .. inquiring minds (well at least this one) want to know .. on what authority you state Paul explains what cannot be found in the direct words attributed to Jesus

We're basing it on the authority that GOD is sovereign and kept his word to us.

How many ancient sources outside the church promote the idea the Jesus is the Son of God?

The church accepted Paul and thats enough for me.

As I said somewhere else, either we have the words God wanted us to have, or we are the most foolish bunch of folks to ever walk this planet.
That being the case, Paul is just who he says he is.

Follower of Christ · 11-23-2004, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.Shack

God's alleged mind doesn't make any sense. Its not reasonable to cunclude that hell is all for our benefit. Its more reasonable to say God doesn't exist. :devil3:

Not hell, the lake of fire wasnt created for man, but for the devil and his fallen angels.
Man only ends up there by his own stubborness.

This....creation.....playing the part God has already forseen is for our benefit, I believe.....it surely wouldnt be for and omnipotent God who knows how the book ends already.

Proxima Centauri · 11-23-2004, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Follower of Christ

We basing it on the authority that GOD is sovereign and kept his word to us.
As I said somewhere else, either we have the words God wanted us to have, or we are the most foolish bunch of folks to ever walk this planet.

Yes, religious folk may be the most foolish folk ever to walk this planet. You said that. We didn't. :Cheeky:
"This....creation.....playing the part God has already forseen" is not for our benefit if the overwhelming majority of mankind winds up in hell. If one soul ends up there that soul has not benefitted. :angry:

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